What are Pooled Locomotives?

airdescent Jun 27, 2007

  1. airdescent

    airdescent New Member

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    This is a great forum for a novice like me to learn about railroading. One thing that I have always wondered about is how the railroads share locomotives

    How does it work? What's the purpose? Who maintains the loco when it is out of territory? Who keeps track of all this? Who gets the bill?

    Thanks
    Copyright 2008 Jerry DeBene
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 27, 2008
  2. Hytec

    Hytec TrainBoard Member

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    Hi Jim, Welcome to the TrainBoard, it's great to have you aboard.

    I can't answer your question, but I'm sure there are a bunch of members who can and will be happy to.
    Copyright 2008 Jerry DeBene
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 27, 2008
  3. OC Engineer JD

    OC Engineer JD Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    Alot depends on the contract or the terms of a contract between railroads and customers.
    To give you an example. The ATN brings a 64 car unit train to a Tyson plant. The train is interchanged at Birmingham to the ATN. They want it back in a certain amount of time. Changing CSX engines for ATN engines was taking alot of time, so all parties got together and agreed on a run-through agreement.
    CSX power would stay on the train, ATN provides the crew out of Birmingham and onto the ATN. The Tyson plant has 24hrs to unload the whole train, and it has to back on the CSX in 48hrs. If the train is delayed because of ATN, CSX is paid $700 each hour per locomotive. If there is three units thats $2100 and hour! If the Tyson plant delays unloading, they pay it.
    This system makes this train turn around faster and gets it back to the loading point sooner. Everyone wins.:)
    Copyright 2008 Jerry DeBene
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 27, 2008
  4. OC Engineer JD

    OC Engineer JD Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    And Yes....Welcome to Trainboard! :)
    Copyright 2008 Jerry DeBene
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 27, 2008
  5. jagged ben

    jagged ben TrainBoard Member

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    So is "pool power" the same as run-through agreements, or is that different?
    Copyright 2008 Jerry DeBene
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 27, 2008
  6. airdescent

    airdescent New Member

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    What about consists that have three or four different loco's from different railroads. And if there is a contract to get a train from Alabama to Colorado what about the return trip. I think I am making this more complicated then it really is.
    Copyright 2008 Jerry DeBene
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 27, 2008
  7. OC Engineer JD

    OC Engineer JD Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    Pool power can also be a way railroads 'Pay back' locomotive hours.
    On the I&O we used GTW power until our company power arrived. Once all the GTW power was returned, the I&O let the GTW use several of our GP50's for the same amount of hours we had used their power.
    Other times, a train may run on the BNSF from CA to TX, then get on the NS to GA. Both railroads agree to share power on the train and assign power to that run. Those units are used from GA to CA. So that train could have BNSF and NS power together.
    Other times, power short railroads lease power, HLCX, GATX, LTEX, etc. These could show up anywhere also.
    Hope that helps! :)
    Copyright 2008 Jerry DeBene
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 27, 2008
  8. airdescent

    airdescent New Member

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    Great answer, that makes it a whole lot clearer for me.

    Thanks.
    Copyright 2008 Jerry DeBene
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 27, 2008
  9. Gats

    Gats TrainBoard Member

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    Welcome to TrainBoard, Jim!

    My simplified understanding of power pooling arrangements is where there are two (or more) railroads providing the means of moving commodities between the origin and destination come to an agreement to provide the number of locomotives required to provide the service based on the route miles each owns over the route used. This was done for the reasons Jerry stated above.

    In other words, if railroad 1 has 2/3's the route miles and railroad 2 has 1/3, then RR1 will provide 2 locos to RR2's one. It makes accounting easier as RR1 gets 2/3 and RR2 gets 1/3 of the freight charge.
    Any deviation from this will attract a horsepower/hour (or other method as determined by contract/agreement) charge in favour of the RR providing the additional locomotives. You may have heard of hp/hr paybacks which could have the owing RR's locomotives in any part of the owed RR's system.
    Copyright 2008 Jerry DeBene
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 27, 2008
  10. Rule 281

    Rule 281 TrainBoard Member

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    I can't even imagine the accounting neccesary to keep track of horsepower hours. Engines frequently get 'borrowed' off trains by other RRs, swapped enroute after only part of a trip, stolen by a yard along the way, re-dispatched on the fly before the engine house can get hold of it, fail enroute, etc. etc. There almost has to be an enormous 'slush fund' of hours because of the variables in reporting and routing. (that's a PC way of saying that the RRs might occasionally not be 100% truthful to each other about locomotive useage)
    I don't think they even know where half their units are a good share of the time. I've called the mechanical help-desk many times with problems and got them scratching their heads wondering how a unit ended up where it was when it was supposed to be somewhere else. (like a repair shop, for example)

    ...then add EOTs, freight cars, repairs and crew costs into the mix (because there's a cost for all those too) and you wind up with a lot of charging and counter-charging that must burn a lot of company staff and CPU time but probably doesn't actually move much money at the end of the day.
    Copyright 2008 Jerry DeBene
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 27, 2008
  11. Mr. Train

    Mr. Train TrainBoard Member

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    Please stop my head is hurting:sad:

    Thanks for all that info makes more sense why I see all kinds of power on the BNSF (old C&I) route near me.
    Copyright 2008 Jerry DeBene
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 27, 2008

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