What is required for an old pullman to be interchange-capable?

Biggerhammer Jun 16, 2001

  1. Biggerhammer

    Biggerhammer TrainBoard Member

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    I'm looking at purchasing an old Pullman car, for conversion to be a residence. It has friction bearings, which I'm told will likely make it unallowable for interchange unless I swap them out with roller bearings. What else is required to have an old car be interchange-ready?

    Also, any ideas on how one changes out bearings? Will it require new trucks, or just replace the bearings in the old trucks? Is there a shop that does such work (especially if they have field crew?)?

    Thank you.
     
  2. Gregg Mahlkov

    Gregg Mahlkov Guest

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    Biggerhammer, there is a group called the Tourist Railway Association, Inc. (TRAIN), website: http://www.train.org whose members deal with this sort of issue everyday. It publishes a magazine in which people who do precisely the type of work you need done advertise. I subscribed to it for a couple of years when the railroad I worked for contemplated running a tourist operation and the magazine is full of exactly the information you are seeking. :cool:
     
  3. Ironhorseman

    Ironhorseman April, 2018 Staff Member In Memoriam

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    An excellent referral Gregg! [​IMG]

    Bighammer .. your car will also have to pass a FRA inspection: wheel flanges, brake system, (valves will have to be overhauled by a licensed airbrake serviceman), brake shoes and air hoses. And if your car is to be at the rear of the train you will be required to have at least one red light to the rear. Old marker lamps will do for that job if you have them.

    Good luck!
     
  4. Biggerhammer

    Biggerhammer TrainBoard Member

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    Gregg, thank you. The link looks like quite a mine of useful information.
    Ironhorseman, the details of the list you gave me will help.
    Thank you both.

    The car in question has friction bearings, which I am told will keep it from passing inspections to be interchange-capable. Is this true and if so, what can I do about it?

    Thank you for the continued assistance.
     
  5. Gregg Mahlkov

    Gregg Mahlkov Guest

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    If you are not planning to move the car ever again once you get it to destination, it may be cheaper to load it on a TTX 89 ft. flatcar minus trucks and send the trucks along in a gondola. This will require hiring a heavy duty crane at both ends. :cool:
     
  6. Biggerhammer

    Biggerhammer TrainBoard Member

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    Not planning on moving it frequently, but it will move from time to time, so I am working on getting it interchange-capable. I'd thought about flatbedding it- and may yet, to save initial outlay- but my hope is to buy, modernize running gear as necessary, and refit the interior all at the same time. That way I can do it on one loan/mortgage I hope.

    Thank you for the suggestion, though.

    I've read through the website you suggested- looks nice but lacks the sort of details I need- such as, what kind of couplers will work, what criteria are used to evaluate the brakes, wheels, bearings and suspension. Know of a site that has such information, preferably in English instead of legalese? (I've wandered aimlessly thorugh the NTSB and FRA sites)
     
  7. Gregg Mahlkov

    Gregg Mahlkov Guest

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    You really need to have the car inspected by a qualified car inspector that can not only tell you what the defects are but how much it will cost to rectify them. I am fairly sure, for example, that you will have to change out the axles if you apply roller bearings. There are several consultants that provide such a service, and you can probably get their names through the Tourist Railway Association. It does sell a book on rehabilitating passenger cars, I recall. Is the seller willing to give you a list of what repairs need to be made to make the car road-worthy? :cool:
     
  8. Ironhorseman

    Ironhorseman April, 2018 Staff Member In Memoriam

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    Bighammer,

    I have a friend who owns a shortline railroad in southern California, (Filmore Western RR) who has restored an old ATSF business car. His name is Dave Wilkerson and his website URL is:

    http://www.fwry.com

    Maybe you can link up to him thru there via an e-mail. He's a really nice guy and I'm sure he'd be happy to give you some helpful pointers. [​IMG]
     
  9. Biggerhammer

    Biggerhammer TrainBoard Member

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    Another question, for those who know trains-

    Can I use freight trucks on a 1923 Pullman?

    Passenger-car trucks are quite pricy, about 10-12 grand for a pair (and at that, I have no assurance that they are interchange inspectable- just that they have roller bearings). Since this Pullman is not going to be hauling passengers- it will either be a stationary home or occasionally be moved from place to place via interchange- could we use frieght trucks? I expect that the ride would be rougher but since the traincar will never haul paying customers, I'm not concerned about a jouncy ride.

    The Pulman in question is an old Bethlehem Steel coach, currently wearing 6-wheel with GSI, ISH bolt-on trucks with 5x9 oil-friction bearings. (What does 5x9 mean?)

    Thank you for your advice.
     
  10. Gregg Mahlkov

    Gregg Mahlkov Guest

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    I highly doubt that any railroad would accept a Pullman on freight trucks in interchange service. The brake rigging is not compatible and the bolster and kingpin arrangement is different. 5x9 is the size of the journal in inches. You need to have a professional inspector look at the car and tell you what repairs are necessary to make it roadworthy. Someone from a museau or tourist operation should be able to point you in the right direction. Passenger cars were occasionally moved around in the shop on freight trucks, but the brakes were not connected. :cool:

    [ 28 June 2001: Message edited by: Gregg Mahlkov ]
     
  11. Biggerhammer

    Biggerhammer TrainBoard Member

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    Thank you, Gregg. While your advice isn't what I'd hoped to hear I am glad to learn quickly what can and cannot be done.

    Alas, that gets me back to the square one- if friction bearings are out then any car that currently uses them is out too. It sounds like a lot too much money to bring friction-bearing trucks up to modern standards.

    Ah, well. There are other cars out there, some of them with roller bearings. I'd just become rather fond of this one.
     
  12. E&NRailway

    E&NRailway TrainBoard Member

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    To change the Pullman from Friction bearing to roller bearing you do not have to replace the whole truck, you can replace the individual axle.
     
  13. Biggerhammer

    Biggerhammer TrainBoard Member

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    Any idea where I could get a price on such a service? I'd love to do this, if it fits within my budget, but I haven't gotten any hint as to what costs to expect beyond 'It's a lot.'

    The Pullman is an old heavyweight, which means six axles. I've written several shops but they've either failed to reply or given a reply that works out to 'Gee, I dunno, why don't you ship the trucks to us so that we can look at them before we'll give you even a vague guess as to what this'll cost!' I need to have some sort of ballpark so that I can try to budget! :confused:

    Thank you all.

    {I just read this over, and boy but do I sound whiny! Sorry about the tone. It's just been frustrating to not be able to pry a price out of anyone}

    [ 01 July 2001: Message edited by: Biggerhammer ]
     
  14. Biggerhammer

    Biggerhammer TrainBoard Member

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    The strange saga continues...

    After a handful of email between myself and the owner a of a few traincars that I found on the net, I finally got a phone number and spoke with him. He was quite helpful, describing the five cars he has for sale and various options that might work for me. I came away from the conversation with a few questions:

    One of the cars he has for sale was interchange-capable when it was parked two years ago. It has rust showing- rust that is likely through the side panels. The question- how much rust is too much? I can bondo and paint with the best of them, but bondo provides negligible structural strength.

    How does one arrange to move a traincar? It'll be going over at the very least two rail systems (CSX to B&M and probably a local shortline on my end). Do I just find out which companies own/operate the rails between origin and desination and call them, or is there a simpler method?

    Again, I thank you all for your advice and attention. I appreciate the knowlege I gain here.
     
  15. Gregg Mahlkov

    Gregg Mahlkov Guest

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    You will need to contact the carrier at origin (CSX). They can, and should be able to, furnish you with a price for the through move as well as advise you of all that is necessary to move the car including inspections and assignment of car reporting marks. I assume it has a number. In order to move the car, it has to be listed in the UMLER file temporarily, so the railroads' computers will recognize it. I will look at CSX's website and find out the pricing person responsible for railroad car and let you know. I will warn you, the railroads today are not used to dealing with the public, only big shippers, so it may be a case of the lame leading the blind. You might get faster results contacting each road about a price.

    Bondo should work if the structural members are not rusted out. :cool: :rolleyes:

    [ 09 July 2001: Message edited by: Gregg Mahlkov ]
     
  16. Gregg Mahlkov

    Gregg Mahlkov Guest

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    Go to http://www.csxt.com, click on "Customer", then click on "Food and Consumer", then click on "preformatted contact form" and fill it in. If you don't hear in a couple of days, call the "800" number (CALL CSX). :cool:
     
  17. Gregg Mahlkov

    Gregg Mahlkov Guest

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    [ 09 July 2001: Message edited by: Gregg Mahlkov ]
     
  18. Ironhorseman

    Ironhorseman April, 2018 Staff Member In Memoriam

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    Bighammer,

    I spoke with the owner of the Yreka Western RR about the cost of converting your Pullman with friction bearings to roller bearings. He told me you can expect to spend at least $7,000 per axle.
     
  19. Biggerhammer

    Biggerhammer TrainBoard Member

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    :eek: (upon reading Ironhorseman's last message, BH shrieks in dismay and faints. After laying unconscious under his desk for a few minutes, he remembers that he's discovered another way to do it, and wakes looking relieved) ;)

    We found a car that has heavyweight trucks, in interchange shape as of two parked years ago. The car costs less than four grand. I may just buy that one, as I plan to redo the interior anyway; but if not, I'll buy that car, pay to get the trucks removed and shipped to the other car that we're considering.

    Thank you for looking into the price for me. It lets me know that the potion of Pullman youth is a pricy one.

    Gregg, I'll check with CSX tomorrow, and see what kind of circles we can go in. The webpage that I tried before tried to automatically calculate the price but was not flexible enough; I expect that they one you suggested (which sounds as though it'll email a real live person and have them do the thinking) will be more effective. I'll try that tonight.

    Thank you both for the help and advice.
     
  20. Gregg Mahlkov

    Gregg Mahlkov Guest

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    As you've discovered by now, ownership of a private railroad car is not for the faint of heart or thin of wallet! :D
     

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