Wow is right Candy, that is fantastic news and looking forward to it coming to the market. The Gentlemen is correct it could be a game changer.
Very very interesting, and I agree, a very cool game-changer. Lots of questions, like run-time and so on, and how you access the battery for charging. Would be neat if yo could charge from the rails if there's power on them, and just use the battery when the rail power is missing or spotty, would avoid having to open up the loco and get at the battery for charging. I'm also curious how this is going to work in the smaller scales and with Diesel locos... getting the electronics to shrink won't be the problem, it'll be getting small enough batteries with enough current capacity and run time. Still, this is exciting!
Well, giant leap is pushing it I think, but what is a significant step is this being taken up by a commercial enterprise - it should certainly get things moving a bit. I'm very curious about the DCC compatibility stuff; I wish he'd explained a bit more about how that all hangs together. But it sounds good as it means there should be an easy upgrade path for DCC users, and no need to convert everything, given that fitting all that stuff into some engines simply won't be practical for a while.
I could see that working but also wonder about how long the batteries last. Recharging on the rails would be nice.
I remember 20 or 30 years ago someone at Model Railroader came out with a battery powered rc system. It was mostly a curosity at that time, I think it took an ABA set of F units to haul around all the electronics, but it did work nicely. Really freaked out a few people when he ran it on a table off of the track . LOL This looks like a pretty cool system that they have here. Electronics have come a long way in 30 years.....Mike
Well, it's already possible to get HO scale diesels with Radio control and battery power...with some compromises. The amazing thing here is the apparent integration with DCC.
You know, I see the advantages to using a battery-powered unit in a train, and I sure could use one now, but, coming from a RC Plane backround, there's a lot of issues. Using a Li-Po battery for these is the only way it would really be possible, but Li-Po batteries are dangerous and tricky. If a Li-Po battery is run down to a low voltage (depends on the starting voltage battery, but it's usually around 2-4 volts) the battery becomes dead. Sometimes, if plugged in, they explode. Other factors, such as uneven cell charge or over charge can lead to explosions as well, except those would happen when you were running your train. The average RC plane runs between 8-25 minutes. Usually, in order to fly for longer times, it involves careful throttle handling and good flying conditions. Now, although the motors in model engines are running at a much much slower RPM, they handle much more strain than a motor just spinning a propeller, meaning it may even use an equal amount of power to run the motor. Add grades or switching, and you're really using your battery up. I would estimate you may get around 30 minutes of run-time with the battery they were using, which appeared to be a two-cell, 1000mAh, if I read correctly. They mentioned making the battery much smaller, though, which would cut down on run-time. I keep all my Li-Po batteries in sealed ammunition cans when they're not in use, and always have a fire extinguisher nearby when charging. Running a fleet of engines that need constant battery monitoring, replacement, and looking at charging, plus the cost of the batteries and the decoders, the practicality just isn't clicking for me. I feel like they've obviously run into the same problems I mentioned, though, and have or are trying to work things out in the next few months. Just my input and first impressions on the system. Alex
Oh, the DCC integration is the easy part. All you have to do is build a transmitter that takes the Command Station signal and sends the messages out over, say, XBee... and then hook an XBee receiver to the decoder along with the battery. The trickier part will be to get a battery that lasts long enough to be useful, has enough power to drive the train, is easy to recharge, and isn't a fire hazard. Without the battery, the wireless command stuff is just "fluff", since you still need the rails and their associated wiring to deliver power. If Duncan has truly solved the battery problem, this becomes very cool indeed.
The wireless diesel I've used in the past used standard 9 volt batteries and lasted for around 30 minutes of near constant use including about 4 cars and the occasional grade.
Maybe you could power the tracks or a portion of the tracks and use that trickle charge to keep the engine battery charging while in operation.
The potential is dandy...but it ain't new...as Mike C. (hello, Columbus !), 'twas done 20 or 30 years past - HO F-7s, as I remember, across a table-top - think the battery took up one of the two units. The battery still seems problematic, though wasn't aware of the Li-Po hazards. Size/capacity seems still limiting...the demo is on HO, what about "N" and "Z" - even HOn of various gauges, with no estimate of run time/power...or mention of the additional drain of lights or sound. I suppose the cost of the batteries and radio units will be offset by not needing "boosters" and "power districts" and "circuit breakers". With track powered locos, if they derail - they STOP ! - not these guys...which leads to a whole new set of necessary protections for (expensive!) equipment and delicate "scenic" items. Using powered track to charge the batteries makes the batteries extraneous...maybe a capacitor, charged by track voltage, would overcome electrical dead spots...and for me, it's tougher to get the mechanism to run smoothly with minimal friction than to get the track continuity and cleanliness up to standards. I'm not against this...think it could be great...but initially, there are problems to be considered and solved...and then there's the problem of visiting or having visiting equipment - how will that work, as there doesn't seem a likely work-around like the dual-mode DCC controllers. I wish these guys good luck, but they are way beyond my level of economic commitment and expertise - I'm still DC. Bob C.
Very cool and as already discuessed, if the battery issues are resolved could be very handy. For myself thought, I cannot envision replacing the current DCC setup with power to the track as when completed I think is very reliable and you don't have to worry about charging the batteries in your trains. Now, you could combine this technology with the wireless power tranmission technology, now that would be cool. At present, I see this system complimenting an existing converntional DCC system, maybe use this system to power trains on a really nasty branch line so the tracks could just be filthy sunk into the dirt and mud now that would be cool
With my layout sitting in a dusty, semi-outside location, the ability to run on filthy track is very appealing. Also I do have a dirty, run-down line that requires meticulous cleaning in order for things to run. And if there's one aspect of this hobby I truly despise, it's sorting out the electrics, and dealing with frogs on turnouts.
The current required to run a model locomotive is small compared to the current required by an R/C airplane. The motor in even a small R/C plane draws at least several amps, whereas a model locomotive typically draws less than 1 amp. So it seems possible to me that a small battery could power a model train loco for a considerable time. Still, at the present state of battery technology, it will be tough to carry much of a battery on board a model locomotive. The safety issue is not necessarily a big concern. Lithium batteries as used by R/C airplane pilots have a mixed safety record for two reasons. First is that we discharge them at rates the battery designers never envisioned. Second is that we too often over-discharge our lithium batteries, which damages the cells and creates a potential danger when the damaged cells are charged. On the other hand, the lithium cells used in cameras, cell phones, and laptop computers have a good safety record. That's because those products all contain protective circuitry to prevent over-discharging. The penalty for the protective circuitry is a bit of extra weight. Weight is everything in model airplanes, so we don't bother with the protective circuitry and run the risk that our batteries might go up in flames. In consumer electronics and model trains, a little extra weight matters very little, so there is every incentive to include the protective circuitry in the products. It is very difficult to mistreat the lithium battery in an item of consumer electronics; too many safeguards are built in. Hopefully, the makers of battery powered model trains will follow the same path. - Jeff
Along with the circuitry to prevent over-discharge couldn't extra batteries be carried in a car after the tender. Like a combine or box car. Or maybe capacitors for added power when required. Also the charges I've seen used on RC planes charge rather rapidly so that they can keep flying. A slower charge rate is safer. As far as the issue of itcontinuingg to run off the track a sensing circuit could be made to shut down if contact with both rails is lost. I also think this could lead to some interesting uses off the rails. A self propelled steam traction engine pulling a thrashing machine comes to mind.
That's really neat. It could add a dimension of realism to operations - you have to refuel your loco every so often! One could have a section of track powered to charge the battery at say, a coaling/water tower (for steam) or refueling facility (for diesel). Battery life wouldn't necessarily be a problem - all the locos I have draw less than 1/2 A, most less than 1/4 A. The only exception is an old brass H12-44 that draws about 3/4A. The only problem I see is where to put the battery in most diesels - in many cases, the shell is almost completely filled up by the drive and the frame - and with hood units there is very little space indeed.
