BO B&O Railroad Museum photos

Discussion in 'Fallen Flags' started by sd70mac, Apr 14, 2006.

  1. sd70mac

    sd70mac TrainBoard Member

  2. Hytec

    Hytec TrainBoard Supporter

    Nice photos, thanks.

    But I'm confused about "permission". Why would you need the Museum's permission to publish photos that were taken by yourself with your own equipment in a facility that is open to the general public? :confused:
  3. sd70mac

    sd70mac TrainBoard Member

    I am glad you enjoyed the pics.

    It is a copyright issue. Although most organizations don't enforce it, this museum enforces its rights on its images, no matter who took them.
  4. fitz

    fitz Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

    The Pima air museum in Tucson, AZ has similar rules. They have every airplane ever made on display, but you can't publish any of your photos of them, and photography is not prohibited. :confused:
  5. Hytec

    Hytec TrainBoard Supporter

    Oh well, maybe Shakespeare was correct when he penned "first, we kill all the lawyers,...." :mad: [​IMG]

    Except Mark, of course.... ;) :D :D :D
  6. sd70mac

    sd70mac TrainBoard Member

    Well, it is their right to protect their copyright so I can't begrudge them. Copyrights exist for a good reason IMO.
  7. Hytec

    Hytec TrainBoard Supporter

    I understand and accept that copyrights protect the creators of intellectual property such as books, software, photographs, etc. from being exploited. But from what you and Jim are saying, these museums are claiming that they have copyright authority over the photographs that their patrons create.

    What confuses me is that museums own the items that they have on display. Furthermore, they offer these items for viewing by the general public for an entry fee. However, when the museum allows each patron to carry his/her personal camera equipment onto the museum grounds without restriction, the museum should have no right to the photographs that patron may create while on those grounds. Those photographs are the intellectual property of that patron, not the museum.

    Somehow, I don't think this would stand up in Court, but it probably has yet to be challenged.

    [ April 15, 2006, 03:40 PM: Message edited by: Hytec ]
  8. sd70mac

    sd70mac TrainBoard Member

    Actually, it would stand up in court and it is a valid copyright issue. I understand it doesn't make logical sense to you, but the bottom line is that even though a patron took the photographs, the museum still has control over how images of their property is used.
  9. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

    I don't follow how this would stand up in court. Perhaps if you were a commercial endeavor. But a private individual just sharing his outing with friends?

    If that litigation potential is true, then it applies everywhere, all the time. If you wish to share, nobody could do so, excepting pictures of what they personally own.

    If you vacationed, taking a cruise, you couldn't share those photos taken on the cruise ship. You don't own the ship! If you stood by the Grand Canyon, you couldn't post those pictures without permission? If I ride the Cumbres & Toltec Scenic, I can't post pictures of my trip that I paid for, without permission? No way.

    It makes no sense. If you take a photo of something you see, you get sued? In this case, no cameras should be allowed.

    If your pictures are controlled by someone else, why even buy a camera? :confused:


    Boxcab E50
  10. Hytec

    Hytec TrainBoard Supporter

    Ken, your analogy is 100% correct, and describes the basis of a totalitarian system. Just reflect on the Gulags of Stalin as a prime example, or perhaps Hitler's attempt to create the "Master Race" by exterminating all whom he believed to be beneath his definition of humanity.

    Sorry, didn't mean to rant. However, I firmly believe that tolerance based on logic will ultimately succeed.
  11. Hytec

    Hytec TrainBoard Supporter

    SD, I appreciate your position, and agree that it is a logical requirement for an absolute controlling society. But in our society which is based on laws and trust in the fairness of those laws, there must be a balance between absolute control of people and situations, and in the trust that members of our society are basically decent law-abiding and logical citizens. Personally, I side with, and believe in the latter.
  12. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter


    Once they let the general public in, with cameras, I'm lost as to how they could even pretend to have any say. For a commercial photographer. Yes. Otherwise, no. Unless everyone signs a release. Allowing photography seems like a waiver in itself.

    Boxcab E50
  13. Stourbridge Lion

    Stourbridge Lion TrainBoard Supporter

    Saying it and having a legal right to enforce it are two seperate things. I believe they can make some arguements about Professional usage but that is limited as well based on how they are obtained. Go ahead and search Google (B&O Museum) and you will find currently 188,000 web sites with that reference alone. If you do other searchs you will find even more sites.

    Here is to my legal right to post my photos...

    Railroad Adventures (RRAdventures) - B&O Museum {1999}

    Good to see some recent photos and I hope to get back there again myself...

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
  14. sd70mac

    sd70mac TrainBoard Member

    Folks, please understand that this is basically a policy issue. The cruise ship analogy doesn't fly because cruise ships typically do not have policies requiring permission where as this museum did. I was not able to find any relevent copyright law information on it while writing my blog entry for the photo album tonight. Regardless, as I point out in my blog, I would rather abide by a place's policy one way or the other.

    Blog entry for the photos
  15. Stourbridge Lion

    Stourbridge Lion TrainBoard Supporter

    I respect that you have honored their policy statement.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
  16. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

    It wasn't an analogy. That wasn't my point. Oh well. No sense in continuing this, as we are not going to agree.

    Boxcab E50
  17. sd70mac

    sd70mac TrainBoard Member

    Stourbridge Lion: Thank you, I appreciate that.

    Boxcab: I tend to agree we shouldn't continue on it since it looks like a hot button topic and continuing probably wouldn't make anyone happy. Thank you.
  18. Sten

    Sten TrainBoard Member

    I wonder if they want to fly 17,000 miles to come and get me???? been to the museum twice and have quite a fair few pics of the place,,,,, but considering that US law has no jurisdiction in Australia then I guess they'd have to try and extradite me, if they pay for a return flight then I'll put the whole collection up tomorrow :D

    but in saying that I am surprised that a museum that has relied SO heavily on public donations after the roof collapse, would do such a thing, if anyone tried that here they'd be out of business tomorrow
  19. OC Engineer JD

    OC Engineer JD Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

    Great photos. I really wish they would get AFT #1 inside. :D
  20. Stourbridge Lion

    Stourbridge Lion TrainBoard Supporter

    Ever thought about getting away from Webshots and using RailImages or having your own personal RR Website hosted at Both are great alternatives and let you post your images in forums rather than just being able to post a link to your Webshot album.

    Just a thought...

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

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