I've seen in pictures (and in person) some local trains that have an engine on each end of the train, each facing outboard. I remember reading that this was done on certain parts of the NS (former Conrail), so that the train had quick and easy access to any spur, regardless of which direction the turnout faced. But my question for anyone that might know is: When the train is traveling (as in on the way from one spur to another), are both engines running, or is the rear unit in idle (or if equipped appropriately, is the rear unit shut down)? If they're both running, are they remote controlled, or do two engineers simply coordinate over the radio, maybe something like helper operations? Do they still run them with two man crews (maybe both being qualified as engineers)? ---jps
==================================================================== As a student conductor, I qualified on a road switcher job, IIRC it was called the "West End" job. I also qualified on another job as an engineer that switched industries out that way.It basically operated on what is known as "The Mainline" of the former C.B.& Q. from Montgomery IL,just west of Aurora, towards Galesburg IL & points west. CRS all the industries it served but it did get as far as Zearing and Plano. The job I qualified as an engineer switched the warehouse for the home center firm "Menard's" . It also worked "Plano Molding" At any rate, as a student conductor, the crew I worked with was the regular crew, all old heads, all now retired. That job was allowed to use two locomotives,GP-38s, one at each end. The reason for that was due to some industry sidings that could only be reached from the east end. A loco pulling the train would be unable to switch the siding. A "Dutch Drop" wouldn't work since (A) those moves are illegal and (B) the train length was too long to accomodate enough clearance to allow the switch to be properly thrown for the drop. The moves were made by having one locomotive on idle and the hogger would switch ends. In our case the conductor would operate the necessary loco(DONT TELL ANYONE!!) Amazingly, he was a pretty competent engineer! After positioning the train properly, the conductor would tie down the standing train,hit the ground with the brakeman and make the necessary moves to spot the industry. After the spot, the two parts of the train would be re-joined and we would move on to the next industry. Why, you ask, did the industries have sidings with switches at the "wrong" end? Well, originally they didn't, they were double ended but due to some misinformed management or misguided economic reason, the switch at one end of the siding was removed. The industry still needed to be served so another expedient was found. Hence the two locos. Does that help? Charlie
I have seen that job worked a few times in passing. Always "wondered" how the engineer could be on the engine and ahem the other unit be moving.
==================================================================== You have a car to put in an industry siding but it is behind the loco so you cant shove it in. How to do it??.... Station capable switchman at industry siding switch. Position other trainman or conductor to pull pin on car to be placed in siding at end of car where it is coupled to rest of train. Same competent trainman(or another if you have that large of a crew) will position himself to pull pin on end of car connected to loco. If he is fortunate enough, the brake wheel will be at the same end of the car connected to the loco and he will lift the pin with his foot when the the car moves. If not he has to position himself where he can pull the pin as the loco and car pass him and then swing up on the opposite end of the moving boxcar. Give engineer a quick highball. Loco and car begin moving, pin connecting car to loco is pulled.Loco accelerates more. After loco passes over industry siding switch the first capable switchman RAPIDLY aligns switch into industry siding. If he was quick enough car with second competent switchman or conductor will enter siding with said trainman operating brake wheel to properly spot car where customer requires it. If first capable switchman was not capable enough, car will either join locomotive which has stopped shortly upline or car will join ballast and the carrier will be quite upset with switch crew. When car is "on spot" first capable switchman will line industry switch back to normal. Locomotive will reconnect to standing train.All trainmen will reboard train in their proper locations. Train will move on to next destination. This move is best made on level track or slightly downhill with respect to industy siding. Of course this move is still against the rules. LOL
I never heard the term "Dutch Drop". In the northeast (B&M, MEC, etc.) it was called a Flying Switch around 1950. Regardless, it was still agin' the rules. BTW, it's still being done when needed. I saw a nice smooth one a short while ago, just can't seem to remember where, when, or what road. :tb-wink:
Flying Switch Hytec, Good job of selective memory. :tb-biggrin::tb-wink::tb-ooh::thumbs_up: Charlie, Thanks for the answer.
==================================================================== I was a student on a job working out of Rochelle? (CRS) The crew did a combo Dutch drop/flying switch to get a car on the rear of a cut we were switching. Wherever it was had a long tangent lead with a runaround track. The conductor lined the switch out of the runaround track at the far end, went over to the car to be cut-off, gave a little kick just to get the car started,pulled the pin car rolls slowly out of runaround, brakeman cuts off loco from remainder of cut,rides loco out onto industrial lead, drops off, relines switch to normal,highballs hogger who rips out on throttle to go forward. In the meanwhile car has rolled out onto industrial lead,conductor lines switch to normal, loco catches up to slowly rolling car and makes its own joint. brakeman has gone over to free rolling cut(rolling VERY slowly) and ties a hand brake. loco brings car back, goes onto runaround track and ties on to standing cut with dropped car now in desired position. Student is told to keep his mouth shut about what he just saw. Student was also told to stay on loco and watch the action. Obviously this crew had done this move before. Old habits are hard to break. I also worked the shortest day ever on a job at Rochelle. Switched one car into a lumber yard, went back to depot, tied up job,neglected to answer telephone which was the trainmaster calling us from his home wanting us to go to Oregon IL and do some work there. The whole job from getting into the cab to take us to the yard, getting the necessary car, taking it on and off the main line to the lumber yard,spotting the car, getting back on the main line and tying the locomotive down by the depot and tying up the job was done in less than 1/2 hour.
