Let me see if I'm getting closer to understanding all this... 1) Everyone will be soon paying out the nose for locomotives with sound because soon thats the only way they will ALL be made. (It's the latest and greatest and everyone wants that...right ??!!) 2) The sound guys will probably pull out whatever semi expensive sound decoder the manufacturer decided to use and the sound guys will pay an additional $100.00+ per locomotive for the sound decoder they DO want. 3) The straight DCC guys will be paying for a sound decoder they dont want or need. 4) The DC guys will not only be paying for a sound decoder they dont want or need...but they will be paying for a decoder of any sort they dont want or need. 5) Sound in N Scale sounds like fingernails on a chalkboard !!! Am I getting close to understanding it all yet ? ** Written and posted dripping with sarcasm !!!
Hopefully it won't go that far. There is still a sizeable market for all threevarieties. Like you said, many want specific sound modules. And many find all the noise a distraction. Me? I even run mine quietly with sound off at times.
I've been at a layout with sound. At first it was interesting. After a while, it began to be a distraction, irritating. Operating engines, idling engines. Certainly realistic. But....
I would agree with the noise when volumes are turned up. It's interesting to note that people find it distracting. Whether right away or after a bit. I like volume turned down so you only hear it when you are a couple feet away. Seems more realistic that way really. But what I find interesting is the difference in real life noise levels. One can hear steam engines clattering and chuffing from quite some distance. Diesels not so much until that horn goes. I would be interested to know how sound guys model that into their layouts. As for the future of Loco marketing? MP is still offering DC and now dcc/sound in the steam market. And I think before long. It will only matter about the speakers you use. Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
Dont get me wrong. If guys like the noise...thats their bussiness. I guess my point is....why do we all have to pay the price for it...if we dont want it ? That part dont make sense. You can still buy a 'DCC Ready' locomotive...and thats kewl. BUT...I still have a 'spidey tingle' that tells me that all the manufactures will be going 100% sound....with the ability to easily run them on DC or DCC or DCC With Sound. At that time...everyone will pay the same price...and if ya dont like it...well....
I do wonder that myself. Kinda like the cell phone business. Before long all that will be available will be smart phones. However. There is still a good amount of excellent locomotives on the bay and other forums. But...... If new releases of Loco never made before are only available with sound supplied by the mfr. That will hurt the industry I believe. To many folks don't and won't pay 200 -500 for a locomotive that has things they do not need or want. I would like to see those mfr's offer the sound and dcc as an option to buy. But that always hurts the bottom line in a high speed assembly process. Time will only tell what will drive the market in the end. Personally I love that new FEF Kato made. But my LHS has it marked over 400. And he said it doesn't seem to do some things right. It's pretty. But still. 400+ bucks for the model And it still doesn't have sound. You have to send it in for that. Or void the warranty. I sincerely fear that's the direction it's all going.. And that will set everything back.. Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
2) The sound guys will probably pull out whatever semi expensive sound decoder the manufacturer decided to use and the sound guys will pay an additional $100.00+ per locomotive for the sound decoder they DO want. It just doesnt make sense to me. As an example: Someone will pay over 200.00 for a sound equipt locomotive. Then they will pull out the mediocore sound decoder. And put another one they paid over 100.00 for into it. Thats 300-350 for a 200 dollar locomotive. Crazy I tell yea !!! Why cant manufactures just make ALL locomotives that are 'Sound Ready' like they do 'DCC Ready' and forget the 'Sound Equipt' part altogether and let the end user decide what they want to put into it to begin with ?
Another annoyance is that some manufacturers will release a particular loco both as a basic DC/DCC-ready version and as fully-equipped with DCC/Sound factory installed - but with different roadnumbers for each version. Not as much of an issue if you want all the bells and whistles, since they can always be added on, but if you only want the DC version, and want all the roadnumbers, you have to pay the price of the loaded version and rip out the extra pieces. That marketing decision by a manufacturer - who probably thinks it's oh so clever - leaves me inclined not to buy any such locos at all.
The worst problem with this new reality is that if the market is demanding sound equipped models... even if the manufacturer created 'Sound-Ready' versions of the model... the frames would have to be milled to accept the speaker... thereby reducing the tractive effort even more than just 'DCC-Ready' frames. BTW... how well do those Atlas S2 models with sound pull versus the non-sound equipped? Well... probably the same because both had to have milled frames made to accept the decoder. The decoder may actually help tractive effort because the speaker adds a tiny amount of weight versus the open cavity left from the milling of the frame. Time to stock up on Tungsten putty.
I think this could actually be addressed quite nicely with a bit of standardization. If engines were made with a universal electrical strategy for simply plugging-in a module that runs on DC, or DCC, or DCC with sound, and the speaker was similarly addable or replaced by a weight of the proper shape, then not only could be all buyers get exactly what we want more cheaply, but when we sell, we would have a lot bigger market interested in our used items. Of course, that sort of standardization can stifle innovation to some extent. And, in N scale (and z scale is worse), there is not much room in some of the smaller engines, so they may REQUIRE non-standard designs. For instance, my Atlas Civil War vintage 4-4-0 has a tiny z-scale DCC decoder shoe-horned into its tender, with absolutely no more room for a speaker. Steve
Funny part about what you mentioned "Standardization" is what once was the function of the NMRA, but long ago has gone to the waist side. They don't help the hobby in that manner from my viewpoint.
All that is standardized is scale and Dcc functions. As far as I can tell. The little locomotives are not super dcc friendly without some modifications. And forget sound unless you rebuild the locomotives with the engine in the cab. And only a select view are doing that. ( and I can't imagine a little diesel switcher. Ouch.) But to standardize the whole industry might take away some things. And force many out when it comes to retooling dies. That's not cheap and takes a long time. A plug in sounds more reasonable but you will still have those that refuse. We have to accept that n-scale is not as big as HO in terms of sales. And that sucks. Walters has shown us that with their indifference to n-scale. So we just have to be happy with what we get and know we can do more with less. I have seen tons of awesome n-scale work that makes HO guys jealous. We are good with what we have abilities to do and with a bunch of people with knowledge to lead the way. We just need mfr's to know we won't pay HO or O scale prices for locomotives. That, in my opinion. Is where it is heading. The FEF is a good example of where you the market is heading. And that is not such good news.. Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
Change is hard. I'm staring at my land-line phone bill ($40/mth) and wondering whether to cancel it, since we all now use cell-phones. But there's something about that phone on the wall . . . Manufacturers follow the market; Bachmann wouldn't be selling its new N-scale Berk in one version (the sound-value) unless it thought that its overall sales and profitability would at least equal the sales/profitability of doing two (or more) versions (e.g., DC and DCC and/or DCC/Sound). The result may not be what some would like (I bought three; I thought the sound system was terrible, so I stripped it out and put in my own; so I paid twice for sound), but there are a lot of folks who bought these and are satisfied with the purchase. If the overall sales numbers flop, Bachmann will re-evaluate its sales strategy; but if the don't, then you can expect more "sound value" steamers from Bachmann in that version only. I may not like it, but I get why. And in turn, I either buy it or I don't. Bachmann made it's choice; now it is my turn. In the short term (next five years?), I think most manufacturers will settle on two versions: a DC version (convertible to DCC with a board swap), and an "all the bells and whistles" DCC/Sound version. This is essentially what Atlas has done with the S-2, what Rapido is doing with their newest run of GMD-1's, and I think what Intermountain is doing with their GP40-2 release. But down the road I can see that there will be only one version - like Bachmann's "Sound Value" offerings. At some point, it is cheaper for a manufacturer to offer a single version that works for most people than having dual or triple inventory. If they lose a few customers, so be it, as long as the overall profitabiliy doesn change. Here's an example. BMW no longer charges extra for an automatic transmission. It's gotten to the point where putting an automatic in a car is just as cheap as putting in a manual. The automatic is standard, and if you want a manual (which is not even available on some of their cars) you have to special-order it. BMW's management has also indicated that the days of a manual transmission are nearly over, and that in the future, your choices will be an automatic and . . . an automatic (the double-clutch computer controlled "manual" transmission that is anything but). This is life. As a result, I'll probably keep my 128i Convertible with it's six speed manual tranny until I die. But maybe not, if I get a sufficient case of "New Car Fever." Have you tried buying a rotary-dial phone lately? John C.
In the short term (next five years?), I think most manufacturers will settle on two versions: a DC version (convertible to DCC with a board swap), and an "all the bells and whistles" DCC/Sound version. This is essentially what Atlas has done with the S-2, what Rapido is doing with their newest run of GMD-1's, and I think what Intermountain is doing with their GP40-2 release. But down the road I can see that there will be only one version - like Bachmann's "Sound Value" offerings "Down the road"...I will probably NOT be on this earth...other then dust ;-) Have you tried buying a rotary-dial phone lately? You can still buy a rotary phone... http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&page=1&rh=i:aps,k:rotary dial telephone Granted...it works on pulse tone...but still...its rotary In the short term...I can live with a DC locomotive that can be converted to DCC easy enough with a board swap. OR...better yet...a 6 pin socket My FVM ES44AC has a 6 pin...easy enough to pull the stock DC chip and replace it with a DCC chip I'm just not ready for an all DCC SOUND ONLY locomotive. Maybe getting older has one more advantage ;-)
I am in DC, I have been DC since 1947 when I replaced my Lionel collection (DUMB!!!!!), and my father brought home a humongous 120V:18V transformer, an equally humongous selenium rectumfrier, and a rheostat that would handle a small house quite easily. (He was a Bell System engineer who tended to over design.) Consequently, I understand power routing with Peco Electrofrog turnouts and am very comfortable with it. In fact, my current (and probably last) layout does not have a control console as y'all may know it. My power routing is controlled solely by gaps, turnout points, and judicious power feeds. I think DCC is wonderful and would love to have it if it had been available 30+ years ago. I think it's neat to watch folks independently control their trains on the same circuit here on TB and at shows, and am jealous as all get out. But to swap out now just doesn't make sense. For the rest of you...GO FOR IT!!!!! (Though sound from an N-Scale steamer sounds a little wimpy. Gimme a throaty 5-chime NYC Niagara and I get all wiggly inside. LOL}
