I have been doing some research, but as usual, can't find everything I am searching for. I would like to pick some Modelers Brains with a question or two! Q: Target Signals; Is there any point in time when these signals are off? No light showing? Reason I am asking, I want to outfit my layout with IR Proximity sensors to trigger Block Target signals. One diagram I have shows no light in Targets when a train is +one block away. Can anyone answer my question or shed more light on this subject! Thanks Hobo Tim
Tim, There absolutely are times when target or other signal types are off (not displaying any aspect at all) Now, I'm not a signal specialist at all, but have observed this situation. On the prototype, signals are powered by batteries. In order to keep from draining the batteries to light the signals when they are not needed, they go off. This is called "approach lighting". When a train enters the block just in front of a signal, the signal will come on and display whatever aspect is proper to potential movements beyond the signal. If there is no train in the "approach block" the signal goes off again.
You are kinda correct. Approach lighting is not to save the batteries or to save on power bills. All locations have AC power and backup batteries at all signal locations. They actually go out to prevent vandalism at night of all things cause a green light in a dark night is a fun target to shoot at. When a train enters a block of a signal that is approach lit, the TR(track relay) goes down which in turn through the contacts (a heel contact and a back contact) provide power to the bulb in the signal head. The lenses inside the signal head still move from green to yellow to red and so on inside depending on trian movements even though the light is out. Hope this helps. Adam Draskovich Signal Dept. BNSF Railway
its no big deal soupac, there are many misconceptions dealing with signaling. if you didnt say what you said, you may not ever know the real reasoning behind it right? theres no stupid questions here...........ask away if ya have any other questions. Adam Draskovich Signal Dept. BNSF Railway
actually, from what i have been told by the old heads, its better for them to just stay on since it uses less power over time leaving them on over the voltage peaks of turning them on every time a train inters the block. not only that but the 12v(yes the signal system uses the car battery and bulbs) car headlights bulbs last longer under a sustained voltage instead of being turned off and on so its actually prefered that they stay on.......... Adam Draskovich Signal Dept. BNSF Railway
Thanks I appreciate the information you have shared with us on the Signal Operation! Helps me greatly! Thanks Hobo Tim
To add one note on this subject... In addition to approach lighting, which is still used in some parts of the country... there are some signals that only have an on/off display. Usually, the rulebook indicates these signals are modifiers for the main signal, but there are other indications these might be used for as well (e.g. a take siding indicator). You'll need to check the rulebook for your prototype of choice for appropriate examples. And don't forget, the bulbs DO burn out. The rulebook indicates that when a signal is dark, it must be treated as though it is showing the restrictive indication possible. Paul
Searchlight signalz, not target signalz. My back yard. These signals are often not lit. They come on with the 12v Malibu lights at dusk and turn of at 23:59. They show a yellow over green aspect.
That's too cool! I have a pair of WP caboose markers inside that are also lit with Malbu lamps. Just the right amount of light without getting hot. One guy I know put a 60Watt standard bulb inside a standard switch lantern and hung it at head level in his train room. Get too close, and your scalp sticks to the metal! mg:
They took these out of service and put up 3 light signals. I made a copy of the General Order Taking these out of service. When I brought them home I used my 12v MRC train transformer to light them up and see how they worked. They have the origional bulbs in them but 18watt automobile tail ligts work. One time the transformer was unplugged and my next door neighbors called up and advised me of the condition...They like them. I have 3 old switch stands, one modern one and some other RR stuff in my back yard I'll post more when my Son gets home from school and shows me how. It all looks really nice in the summer from the deck.
I've been told by officials that it is to cut costs on CSX which is no surprise. I've noticed that the NS signals are always on. FYI, CSX is also the only class 1 that uses speed signals.
I was told this by the BNSF signal dpt. when we toured the signal school at JCCC in Overland Park: "Kids don't throw rocks at unlit signals" Out here in "bow & arrow" country. It isn't a stretch to picture a couple of young guys driving down the highway and trying out their new 30-30. Prairie Dogs aren't everywhere. Though, in 29 yrs I have never heard of this happening
Target Signal I am glad I asked the question to get this thread started. I have learned many a key point about Target signals. I have been fiddling with some home etched brass and some brass tubing today for my first attempt at a Target Signal. This one is crude, but works. When I say works, I put a micro SMD Bi-Color (red & green) LED in it. Wire runs thru the tubing to the bottom. I have a few plans for block signal approach lighting using Target Signals and Bi-Color LEDs. I hope to make several of these signals and link them all together for a prototypical operation show. Using optical sensors to trigger the signals. I do not run DCC yet, but working on it. Here are a few photos of the signal I built. I need to make adjustments for the SMD LED in the back. It's a little big even though it is only 1.6mm x 1.25mm x 0.65mm in size. Better known as an 0605 LED. I hope this is the correct signal for the AT&SF/BNSF for that is what I am modeling. Any Suggestions? As you can see from the side view photo, the SMD LED sticks out like a sore thumb. I might have to solder two (red & green) 0402 nano SMD LEDs together to make this work better. We'll see. Any comments, questions, or suggestions are welcomed! Hobo Tim
i love your signals tim (and i love your signals chris). i'm working towards the same thing. couldn't find 0402 bi-color LED but i thought i read that "king(something) made them. it was a british concern and website. but then i couldn't find them again (maybe i got it wrong in the first place). i hope you share your further results with us. i'm also wondering how the two 0402s together will work out. tim what resistor did you use, and what are you using to power them? those are just great! dave f.
What I wonder is why haven't the roads gotten away from all those old incandescents and gone to LED lighting?, generally better cycle life, and definately cheaper to operate.
Signal Lights, LED's What I wonder is why haven't the roads gotten away from all those old incandescents and gone to LED lighting?, generally better cycle life, and definately cheaper to operate.
Great looking signals. Santa Fe practice, I'm not sure about BNSF today, according to an article in Trains magazine a few years ago, was that for safety reasons signals always displayed an aspect, ie; searchlight and colour light signals were always lit. This is why ATSF semaphore signals lasted so long in remoter areas, they could continuously display an aspect without using power if batteries failed. Don't know about in the US, but in this part of the world our colour light signals are well on the way to being replaced by LEDs.
