We can go to most any library, and pick out numerous books that explain exactly what happens when we allow such idiocy to rule our lives. It's an ugly future for us. Boxcab E50
Can someone tell me how hassling law abiding people is keeping us safe from the terrorists? I've got an idea... why don't we actually INFILTRATE terror networks and tear them apart from the inside kind of like the approach with organized crime, or is it just easier to hassle people - like, and I know some of you have read this before, giving my wife the "random security check" at an airport YET AGAIN (she has an Arabic last name). I better stop. This kind of thing just gets under my skin.
I'm not sure which is worse- threats from terrorism on our country, or threats from paranoid people on our country. Six of one, half-dozen of another........... Somewhere, Osama bin Hidin is getting a chuckle out of this........:tb-wacky: "Paranoia strikes deep/Into your hearts it must creep/It starts when you're always afraid/Step ouot of line, the Man comes and takes you away........" -Stehpen Stills, "For What It's Worth"
Photographers of trains, buses, etc. also get harrassed here in the UK, and France and no doubt elsewhere. The police here can "stop and search" and when asked why they quote "the terrorist act". They often demand that memory cards are wiped even though that would be illegal, they have no authority to do so. A person with an SLR is more likely to be challenged than someone with a small point-and-shoot camera. If I were a terrorist, would I be flashing around an expensive very visible camera? A lot of the hassle comes from 'jobsworths' who think they are more important than they are. Most are just station platform staff - if they demand the person removes any pictures taken, best just to say "so call the cops and have me arrested". They usually walk away! If the railway police are called, they often have a laugh at the time waster. Here we can print out a statement from Network Rail and one from the British Transport Police websites saying that they welcome railfans on their stations, as they provide extra pairs of eyes, and actually help security. Just part of the widespread paranoia, I guess. Funny thing is, I can go ten miles to Coningsby RAF base and freely photograph Eurofighter Typhoons being prepared, taking off, landing, etc. A parking area is provided for plane fans, plus refreshments. Also the same at Waddington air base where the AWACS are based.
After 9/11 a lot of restrictions were put in place and I always felt I had to sneak my pictures and would not use flash to avoid drawing attention to myself. The MBTA reversed their rules about a year ago. The current policy is if you are stopped you are required to provide identification. Amatures / rail fans / tourists are not allowed to use tripods or mono-pods. There are more minor restrictions mostly centered around respect for people and property and staying out of the way.
Yeah... don't we all remember that video released of Osama bin Laden where he was being followed around the mountains of the Afghanistan/Pakistan border by hordes of photographers with tripods and monopods? The only reasonable thing I can think of is that those things can take up quite a bit of platform space and could potentially become tripping hazards. Other than that, I don't think there's any reasonable argument against them vis-a-vis terrorism.
And here all those pics I took in January 2006 at Boston's North Station were "illegal"....I even had a security guard look at me as I took a shot of one of the MBTA diesels! BTW, all those shots I took were at night. Only thing I took care of was to stay off the tracks, stay on the platform, and keep out of the way of folks boardong & getting off of trains. No one so much as said a word to me. Seriously, since 9/11 I can count myself lucky as never having been hassled by anyone for taking pictures of railroads. I even had one shortline president give me carte blanche to shoot what I wanted, and had the run of the yard at the Nevada Northern RR in Ely, NV, even going so far as to wander in the shop where the extra steam & diesel power (and rotary plow) were kept. Still, I tend to honor no trespassing signs, and stay behind them off RR property when shooting.
you all have now been flagged by the Terrorist Screening Center. :tb-biggrin: it is kind of ridiculous though I must admit! When I see someone photographing stuff my suspicions do perk for a second but after watching them for a while you can tell if there is any foul play going on. Are they photographing scenery, or are they focusing in on electrical boxes and etc.
I find myself always looking over my shoulder when I'm out taking pictures, just the other day I was right out in the open taking photos of the rigs moving rocket motros from Thiokol to the railhead, and no one even gave me a 2nd look, and I was using three cameras at the time!!!
I currently do and will continue to take pics of anything I want anywhere I want. Period. Call me a rebel but I'll be damned if the authorities think they can do anything about it. I will not trespass under most circumstances and I will not relinquish any equipment nor erase any photos. I did get the chance to take photos within an explosives plant in Arizona that clearly had "No photography" sign posted. I did this with permission and I did offer to erase anything they thought would be suspect in order to get permission but they said it would not be necessary to even revue what I had shot. I was just in San Jose last weekend shooting pics for an hour on the platform of the Caltrain station. Only two employees even asked what I was doin and that was out of pure curiosity not security. One even thought it was neat. No ID requested, nada.
As far as I can tell, from reading, the photography issue has really died down in the past three years. Security people from all walks have realized that lots of photographers mean there's a better chance of capturing a crime, IF one occurs. When I'm seriously shooting, I always have two cameras, so I'm pretty conspicuous, and have not ever had an issue. Yes, I ran into a policeman once--he was worried that I was standing on the sloped top of a wall in dress shoes, and might hurt myself!
I might add that cell phone cameras have really busted the world of photography and news reporting wide open.
The photography thing has really calmed down just in the last couple of years. Usually, if anyone hassles me at all, it's some rent-a-cop operating off bad information. I told one guy to go ahead and call the cops as I wasn't doing anything illegal. He either didn't or the cops ignored him. Other than that, you sometimes get these zealot freaks that want to get in your face. Everywhere they look they see terrorism. Would a terrorist bother with a tripod and a classic old film camera? I don't think so. The recent goings on in Iran have shown that with camera phones and all manner of small image capture devices that nearly anyone can be taking photographs.
If some dumb hick cop ever questions me again like last year in Lebanon Junction,I'll simply compare it to fishing if he doesn't "get" it. Vehicle is my "boat" Camera is my "fishing pole" Tracks are the "river" Trains are the "fish". Surely even the dumbest country cop would understand that. Rail photography to me is what fishing is to some people. Usually I don't run into any problems when taking pictures,nowadays
If you use an attitude like that to any cop, whether they be city or "dumb country", you are asking for a boatload of trouble. I've been approached only once, and that by a BNSF special agent just stopping by, and after he saw that I was on public property (an access road paralleling the yard) it was all good. He even suggested a couple of other spots to shoot from.
Well, we've strayed a bit too far here. Discussion was about protection of precious freedoms. But we just don't need to be taking swipes at law enforcement. Yes- As with all walks of life, there are good ones, and most certainly there are duds. But this needs to be addressed to lawmakers. It's they who create the prohibitions which launch these scenarios. And they are where the tide must be halted. Boxcab E50
