First Venture into DCC

I've been out of the hobby for over a decade and I am looking to jump back in by building a 12' x 10' L shaped shelf layout in a spare bedroom. I'm starting to think a little beyond layout design and in to a control system. Ten years ago I would not have been too keen on DCC due to the simplicity of the layout, but considering the cost and features of DCC things are looking different this time around. Although 98% of the time I will operate only one locomotive on the layout I'm interested in the slow speed performance, lighting effects and sound that DCC offers.

After doing a little research to systems seem to fit well for my situation, the NCE Powercab and the MRC Prodigy Express. I outlined a few pros and cons for each one:

MRC
Can have multiple jacks and can change jacks without stopping train
Reputation for being easy to program
Computer programming not great
New - less than $150, Ebay - less than $100
Somewhat upgrade-able although you don't get the Advanced cab
Could go to Prodigy Advanced on Ebay for around $150

NCE
Limited to one jack
Reputation for excellent support and reliabilty
Cab can be used with other NCE systems
Works well for computer programming
New - less than $200, Ebay - less than $150
I think I would like the control wheel better than a knob

I was hoping to get some opinions on the two units. For those that have used either or both systems:

Will I get frustrated with only one jack on the NCE? I was thinking I would want one on each leg of my "L"
Do really need computer programming abilities? How would the NCE benefit me if I use a computer to program?
What are your impressions of the scroll wheel vs the knob?
What would be a good non-sound decoder to go with either system? Low speed performance is a priority.

If you have an input, I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks in advance.

 

If you want sound, you will need JMRI to program your sound decoder. This rule out any MRC product.
The Power Cab can be expanded easily and if you already own an iPhone or iPod with JMRI you will be able to use these devices to run your trains.
The best non sound decoder are in my opinion are TCS.

 

I've seen the JMRI - MRC issue before but I'm having a bit of a disconnect here. For what I want to do (adjust sound, lighting, and running characteristics of a locomotive) I need to program the decoder, correct? If I'm not doing anything fancy such like controlling my layout with my computer or doing any sort of routing will I ever need to extensively alter the settings of my DCC CAB? If need to program decoders only and want to use JMRI, can I accomplish with with a LokProgrammer or Sprog?

Ultimately, I know that the NCE is a more respected unit, but being tethered to one spot may be the dealbreaker for me. I will have to see if it is worth my while to go to a more expensive unit.

 

Or you could just add a walk around throttle and jacks to the NCE Power cab. It will allow additional throttles, even radio. You just can't unplug the main unit. In addition, the Powercab can be used as a throttle with their full larger system. While MRC has done some improvement with backwards compatibility, their track record was not so good with their earlier systems. For that reason, i just don't trust them.

Martin Myers

 

I still run the Command 2000 on my N scale layout. It works for what I need it to do. A couple months ago I was thinking about upgradeing to a new system. I looked at the MRC Prodigy Express, and to me it looks like a very good system that would do everything I needed. And it also looked fairly easy to use. And yes there are a few things it won't do, but really weren't all that important to me. I also looked at the NCE starter system. It also looks like its easy to operate. And it does do everything that most would want it to do. Really the price of either system is close to the same depending on where you would get it. After considering both systems fro a week or so I did decide that when I do upgrade I would go with the NCE system. Not to say its better, but it just has a couple more features that could be very useful.....Mike

 

The MRC Prodigy Express is a really good DCC starter system. I like that the controls are very intuitive with the instructions printed on the back of the handheld controller. You can program a sound decoder with the Express without needing a computer. The MRC computer software works really good as well.

I also like that the MRC Prodigy Express can be upgraded to all the features of the MRC Prodigy Advanced Squared.

Here is the upgrade path for the MRC Prodigy Express.

1) All the newer MRC Prodigy Express systems come with the Advanced A2 software. MRC has instructions to check to see if you have the latest software. The only thing is that you will need an Advance Squared handheld to check the software version number of an Express. If you don't have the latest V3 software, you can send your Express system to MRC to upgrade the software. This is done for a small fee so be sure to contact MRC before sending in your Express system.

2) The MRC Prodigy Express system power can be upgraded from 1.6 amps to 2.5 amps by purchasing the Advanced Squared power supply which is part #1504.

3) You get all the additional features of the Advanced Squared (including the ability to control DCC turnouts) by purchasing the Advance Squared Handheld #1415 or the Prodigy Wireless Conversion Kit #1412. You can still use the Prodigy Express Handheld as an extra throttle for two operators by purchasing the MRC Extension Plate #1501.

Best regards,
Brian

 

I've had bad experiences with MRC DCC. I've also read plenty of posts from people who've had problems with MRC DCC. I don't trust it, and I don't install MRC decoders, and I uninstall any MRC decoders that may be standard issue in any motive power I've purchased (old Athearn Big Boys & Challengers).

Of the two systems, I would MUCH rather go with NCE.

One thing MRC does is the "good sell". They know how to make their product sound like the latest-greatest DCC there is. However, that has not been my experience, with decoders frying, difficulty programming even the most basic things (addresses), jack rabbit starts and stops, sounds not properly sychronized to the actions of the engines, and basically crappy sound...the worst of all the sound decoders I've had experience with (MRC, Digitrax, Soundtraxx, ESU Loksound).

That being said, I went through much of the same thing as you are now going through, attempting to figure out which DCC system was best for my use (present use, future use, expandability & customer service, price & availability), and I chose Digitrax, and I'm very happy with my choice.

Although I realize that NCE and Lenz are also excellent systems, and some of my train buddies operate their layouts with those brands and are happy with THEIR choice, the 3 main reasons I went with Digitrax are these: (1) An American-made product, so there's a strong likelihood availability will always be excellent and not subject to international political and financial problems. (2) Digitrax is extremely easy to upgrade from the basic starter set (the Zephyr) to wireless (either IR or radio), including the addition of IR and/or radio utility and super throttles. (3) LOCONET, which is Digitrax's peer-to-peer networking protocol and allows very easy addition of train detection, block management, signalling, dispatching, computer control and a host of other more advanced features that I eventually plan to implement on my portable, modular layout.

An additional reason I chose Digitrax is because here in Utah, it is (by far) the one system which the majority of serious model railroaders run...which means when I get invited to an operating session, I pack up my throttle and go, and when I have a question about Digitrax, a solution is only a phone call away to one or more of my model train buddies.

Not all is rosy in Digitrax-ville, and the manuals are extremely counter-intuitive. Learning to operate the system is also slightly counter-intuitive until you figure it out...then it's easy. It's the "figuring out" part that takes a while.

So far, (five years into it) I am entirely satisfied with my Digitrax experience. I have operated on several NCE and Lenz layouts (using smart phones as throttles) and I don't like the way the NCE throttles feel in my hand, nor operating with smart phones. I get a much more "railroady" feel with both my Digitrax utility throttles and my super throttles.

Other friends who have gone over to DCC after I did, and have also operated on layouts using these three systems, have also chosen Digitrax because it is really cheap to start out with a Digitrax Zephyr and then expand it as need requires and money allows, and it doesn't skimp on features.

The new Digitrax ZepX Zephyr Xtra is quite an advanced starter system with an MSRP of around $225. However, most hobby shops are selling it for between $169.99 and $179.99. Micro Mark has a 20% of EVERYTHING this weekend only, and that would put the price between $150 and $140...which is a really great price for this starter system.

For some reason, there are a lot of rabid anti-Digitrax people out there, who mainly complain about Digitrax's steep learning curve. If you can learn to use your TV remote, you can learn to use Digitrax, and if you have problems (which you will with ALL of them) answers are easy to find online.

That's my recommendation for what it's worth, and for your small empire, perhaps the features you want don't include some of what's available on the Zephyr. However, it's good to know you've got them if you decide to expand, or decide to use them...and, the price is right.

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

 

One more thing. No matter what system you decide to go with, a really great way of learning the in's and out's of DCC and your system is to build a "test" module. This is what I did, because I knew Digitrax's reputation for being difficult to learn. I built a simple 12" X 72" "module" (actually an old bridge module) from 1X4 pine and 1/4" plywood, then proceeded to lay some old code70 Railcraft flex and a couple of old code70 Micro Engineering #6's with over-center switch throws on them.

I practiced doing the setup and wiring...experimenting with a couple of protocols for feeder attachment and power bus size...gapped in (including a power selecting toggle switch) a programming track and two "mainline" tracks (just like are on my layout), messed around with a couple of programming track safety features, developed my wiring color protocol and settled on Anderson Power-Poles and 3M IDC's to connect everything up.

I decided on 22 ga. solid core red and black feeders (7" long) on every separate piece of rail, connected with 3M IDC's to 16 ga. red and black subfeeders, which were then connected to 12 ga. lo-ox, high purity fine-strand, red & black zip speaker wire for main power busses.

I found terrific deals on the wire and 3M IDC's, as well as the Anderson Power Poles online, paying ten bucks for 100ea. 3M IDC's and 40 bucks for 500 feet of my 12 ga. copper, lo-ox high purity speaker zip.

If I had it to do again, I'd probably go with 14 ga. zip for the main power busses since I've spoken with several electrical engineers who tell me that signal propagation in 12 ga. is not ideal...even if power preservation is. However, I have had zero problems with my wiring on my 36' X 15' portable layout so far...no runaways or signalling problems of any kind, so my choice was okay.

It was a very good idea to use my test module as just that, as my first choice about wiring and attachment protocol, color, switches and soldering feeders to my rails were ALL wrong. I'm happy that I made the mistakes on my test module rather than on my layout.

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

 

If running with just the standard PowerCab setup, the train will stop if you are unplug the Cab.

If you have added a SB3a booster (or its new replacement) then the train will not stop when you unplug the cab.

 

Personally I don't have a high opinion of the Express, as someone said in a post above, in order to make a potent system out of the Express, one has to add Prodigy Advance hardware to it. May as well buy a PA2 from the outset.

Among the many lack of feature found with the express, four of them are a deal breaker to me.
1- Lack of support for Universal Consisting. I use helpers at the club layout and this ability is a must to run helpers.
2- Does not support running locos back to back when consisting. Of course there are way around this deficiency but it should have been built in. In North America it is common practice to run lashup with locos back to back.
3- No CV read back, this may be OK if you don't program many locos. I am nearing 200 locos programmed with every sound decoders and non sound on on the market. I will not do without CV read back.
4- No JMRI support, of course it is possible to program loco without a computer support. But when programming QSI indexed CV this become an invaluable tool. Sure MRC has its proprietary computer interface but the software is so simplistic to be of no value to someone heavily involved into sound programming.

Now the Express may be OK to someone with very limited needs but it is not for me.

 

Been NCE for about 2 years now..I find more fellow MRRs agree it is the most programable, down to bits and bytes if needed..Power Cab, because it's the brains must stay plugged in powered panel which has 2 leads to tracks..You buy extra daisy-chained panels and a satelite throttle such as '06 Cab'..This is the walk around unit and unplugs/plugs while following train..Nice feature is 'assign loco' in PCab..Loco in screen, say #1908 can be set up with momentum, 28/128 speed step mode plus other features and then it can 'assign' this loco to an 06 Cab , where 06 now controls loco with these running qualities, over-riding the normal 06' basic qualities..Manual is a bit assuming in its wording..At first I hated it..Then I got to understand it and DCC sound/decoder manuals (on CD) that come with an engine, like a Bachmann 2-6-0.. Major thing to remember is: If you've messed up a programing (CV) change and used CV 30 to 2 value to restore factory settings , engines address (to run it again) is back to Addess 3, not one you programed it with such as #1908...to have engine resond to 1908 and not 3 you have to redo 'long address' program..

TO BE CONTINUED :

 

Continued: Just meant to say I do not know if other DCC manufacturers offer same programing features as NCE. My post was not meant as to dis other makes . In fact from what Ive seen, and used a little Digitrax seems nice too..I started with NCE so I've stayed with it....that's all....

 

In my opinion, you can’t go wrong with either the MRC Prodigy Express or the NCE Power Cab. The NCE Power Cab is easier to set up a consist as mentioned by the above poster. The MRC Prodigy Express can set up a consist with locos back to back using either of these two options -

a) Program both locos to the same CV1 address and change CV29 of the one you want to run in reverse.

b) Program CV19 to one of the six addresses and add 128 to the CV19 address of the one you want to run in reverse.

Personally I favor the Express for the following reasons -

1) The location of the controls (buttons, speed knob, etc.) just feel more natural on the MRC Prodigy Handheld compared to the other brands. I like that the larger display and buttons are clear, easy to read, and understandable.

2) Very easy to get a new user started, the instructions are literally on the back of the handheld. Includes the power supply in the base package; nothing else is really needed to get going. Reading the instructions and visiting the websites of the other popular DCC system brands, the information seems more complicated which can make it more difficult to understand how to actually use the controller, as well as the compatibility with all the different options and upgrades.

3) The programming on the main system is very capable, including QSI's unique two-step programming process for many of their sound CVs and the sometimes required 2-digit/4-digit address enabling. It’s easy to fully program all major brands of decoders on the main. No need to program on the programming track unless you want to reset a decoder. There have been some complaints about read back of CV's through the MRC. That said, read back isn’t absolutely necessary since you can use a notebook to log the CV settings for your locos. If you get deeper into programming a lot of locomotives you can get the MRC Prodigy DCC Computer Interface to read all the CV settings using the CV Blaster.

4) The MRC customer support department is very helpful. I generally get replies to any technical questions that have come up within a few hours or less.

A lot of MRC’s bad reputation which sometimes is posted on the various model RR forums comes from their DCC decoders that were out on the market a few years ago. The more recently released MRC DCC decoders are greatly improved with much better reliability and quality. In my opinion, the MRC Prodigy DCC series have always been very good products. Digitrax and NCE make very good DCC systems as well. The good thing for us is that we have choices and can pick the brand and product that best fit our needs.

Best regards,
Brian

 

Wow, MRC is getting a pretty big hit. I used an MRC prodigy express from about late 09' to just this year, when I shorted out the system pretty bad and burned it out. The only reason I did not replace it with another was the lack of availability around here.

Not a fan of MRC's decoders at all, however NCE did take a big role in designing the Prodigy express and advance, so comparing the Powercab and Express is pretty much all hardware based.

I found no downsides to the system, the primary programming tree was almost identical to NCE when programming, Address, CV29, Etc, however MRC added Start voltage, Mid voltage, and Top voltage to the end of the tree, made speed matching the engines much more difficult. Unlike what I saw several others post, you can consist with the prodigy express to run in opposite directions, just with the press of the direction button, even has an indication of which way the engine is facing in the consist on the screen.

I did like the layout of the throttle, Some people find the knob to be a little cumbersome, but I found it was pretty easy to run with one hand. Our club Digitrax DCC system in Ohio died right before our Christmas open house in 2010, and I had to make an emergency installation with the MRC with just hours to the show. Ran the entire show with one throttle (5 recalls, and 2.5Amps) for a 25x16 modular layout. Ran 5 trains at once, some with sound. Never had any hicups, and several members out that way replaced their older digitrax systems (we had a bunch of ancient, early 90's systems out that way for some reason....) with the prodigy's afterwards. \

I do recall my system did read back CV's as well, when the programming track was used, it could not do that on the main though.


My biggest reason for switching to NCE besides the burnout, was a layout move, I moved the layout inside above my desk, which bought in the capability for computer control, something that MRC did not offer at that time. However, less than a month after I made the switch, MRC released the computer capability. Go figure.........


On the other note, the NCE is also a good buy, I currently use a power cab pro, however rarely use the Hammerhead throttle, it just hangs from its mount next to the base plug, I use my smart phone with JMRI to run the layout almost exclusively now. Programming is all done through the PC as well. The NCE only serves as a power supply.

Before I did all this though, this particular system did a lot of traveling, I took the power cab in a briefcase with me on a plane back in December to Ohio. This 2.5 amp system from NCE did the exact same thing the MRC system did above, it ran an entire massive modular layout by itself. I bought along a laptop with JMRI software and we had an old router at the club, thus we ran two NCE hammer heads, and several Wi-Fi smart phone throttles. lots of fun, was pushing the 2.5amp capacity a little bit, but it held!

After that the system bounced between my hobby shop and back home about twice a week. We had sold our demo Digitrax dcc system at the store, but still needed a DCC system to test and demo DCC/Sound engines. Was a bit embarrassing for our tech guys (all digitrax users) to have the NCE in the store while we waited for new zephyr xtras, but they survived.

Both systems proved to be good choices, I would also throw in the Zephyr as a contender. Quite honestly, I sell DCC for a living at the local hobby shop, and I tell people not to make their choices off the hardware or software available for the system, but rather off what interface works best for them. Every DCC system fulfills the needs that 95% of modelers need. I personally have owned Roco, Digitrax, NCE, and MRC DCC systems, every one of them satisfied me when I was using them.

 

This to me is an awkward work around and qualify the Express as a cripple system. Every decent DCC system on the market can easily run locos back to back without this programming nightmare. What is described above is only good if your locos are permanently attached together with a drawbar our are always run in the same consist. One has to keep programming the locos whenever he wants to run them individually or in a different consist.

 

Geep_fan, the thread is about the Express not the Advance.

 

as stated in the beginning of the post, that was the express I was mentioning.

You can consist multiple units in opposite directions with the express. The express has the option of creating advanced consists. However not universal. The directional issue with the express's advanced consisting was solved back with the first software upgrade MRC did back around 09'/10'

 

Geep_fan, can you direct me where I can get further information on that upgrade? I never heard of it. I know the documentation on the Express say it is possible to run locos back to back in a consist by merely changing the traveling direction, but in reality it is not.