This thread comes from discussion on another thread asking if brass is dead in N Scale. With the tremendous cost of producing a quality brass locomotive, would you give money up front to help finance the project? How many companies have asked for a deposit to insure you get your model? Many companies ask for an advanced reservation. How many ask for money? Not many. The question is, Woud you give money up front for a model that may not be produced for 1-2 years after the deposit is put up. I'm aware of Key and the CMT taking deposits and then going out of business.
I have close to 800 locomotives and through the years, I have owned some brass when prices were expensive but not out of control like today. I would not in one New York minute even consider them because they are: * usually inferior to today's plastic/zamac/cast steamers * mechanisms usually suck * way overpriced for what you get * usually do not last long * in some cases no repair parts and no warranty to speak of * I have cases of shoddy engineering/workmanship/construction * companies hope you collect and not run, ergo no expectations for stamina * a million other reasons which are too numerous to mention, but all are valid
Absolutely not! I wouldn't buy one even if there were no requirements other than an exchange of money for immediate receipt of product and the previous post lists some very valid reasons why.
For me, the whole point of brass now is to fill a void that the big guys won't make. For example, many of us know if a Canadian Royal Hudson, the 2860, were to be made, it would sell very well in Canada, the States and somewhat in Europe. For me to buy brass, it has to be something outside of the ordinary.
There are several engines I would buy. I would purchase two or three UP Baby Turbines (with roof intakes, tenders and gray trucks), two or three Veranda Turbines (with gray trucks and tenders), and two or three UP FEF's (1,2 & 3's). I'd also buy two or three small UP Challengers, maybe four ea. UP 2-10-2's, UP 2-8-0's (Non Harriman), UP 9000's and UP MacArthurs. They'd have to be really superdetailed, well painted, excellent runners and have DCC sound. I'd pay between 500 and 1200, depending on the model. I'd also buy several finely detailed and painted models (both Freight Car Red and Armour Yellow schemes) of UP CA and CA-1 cabooses, with some CA-1's having baggage doors. However, I'd reserve them at my LHS, who, in my past brass purchases, has not required a deposit. Cheerio! Bob Gilmore
How many and what other sorts of products do we typically buy where the end customer is expected to be the source of financing for development and production? Isn't that the function of a bank?
The only way I would put up deposit money would be if there were a written contract, and the money were held in a 3rd-party escrow account for a specified time. If the product release date slipped, I would have to have the right to pull my money out of the escrow account without penalty. Under no circumstances could the model maker be allowed to get at that money until the models were shipped. If they worked it like that, I would put up money. Just having hard cash in a guaranteed escrow account might make it easier for the manufacturer to get financing from a bank to make the models. It's not the same as cash in their hand, but it would help.
Sums it up pretty well. Just because I am retired does not mean I am flush with money to spend on what could be problems as pointed out above. I have had enough with some of the regular produced items over the years thank you. Tying up a considerable amount of money in what could be a risky investment is not my cup of tea when a month later that same money might be needed to take care of a more pressing issue like a transmission repair on the old set of wheels. I am not a collector and never will be and not interested in investing in something that the bottom could drop out of in the hopes that it will someday be worth more than I paid.
Any enterprise that would require that sort of upfront commitment would seem to me to be on shaky ground right from the get-go, so it would have to be a model that I really really really wanted before I would even consider such a thing. And even then I'd probably pass. Cheers, -Mark
I would give a lot more consideration to a project that was done through someone like Kickstarter. I would think that in just a couple of years, the shapeways type production with metal printing will be the method of choice anyway. Not sure I would want to be in the brass business at all. I, too would love a Royal Hudson and would be willing to shell out big coin for one. Or two.
I have not purchased a brass locomotive in any scale. I would not be interested in purchasing one now unless it was a very model of a specific Baltimore and Ohio locomotive that has not been offered in other material. Even tend, I am satisfied with the level of detail and quality of materials in the locomotives I currently own.
I want to thank everyone who posted on this thread so far for their agreement and support. Additionally, I think there is a loco or two which I suppose will never be done, nor ever can be crafted or kitbashed, that I might go for, with heavy consideration of the manufacturer of origin, their past related products, their reputation and so on, but thanks to my retirement, I have a fully equipped workroom and have the supplies and tools to do one heck of a lot of adapting. I have had my share of brass, but for me, the record of duds to "dudes" is way higher in brass than on plastic. I have had some Key and other brand makes that were superb. Two standouts in question, I bought an S-2 for $400 which ran and looked very nice but the side skirts on the brass tender contacted with the brass truck sides and always caused a short on even the widest curves. Bogus. The dealbreaker was a pair of Hallmark F3a/b units in PRR which I purchased in 1988 for $120, which at the time of the birth of my son, was big money to us, and when it jammed up it was because of the flimsy microchip board frame which after screws for trucks and accessories were in one time, the board fatigued and failed. I replaced the mechanisms with GP9 Atlas Kato mechanisms, re-used the motors and gears to the bogus Hallmark units elsewhere and sold the pair with upgraded mechanisms with insulation, for the same price I paid, attributing it to "lessons" learned. After that, one of the few brass pieces I bought (outside of swap meet deals and discards) was a caboose, a PRR N5C porthole caboose for $85 a piece I thought was never to be produced. Thanks Bowser, now I have 3 and decided to keep the brass one for its value as I know now I would take a bath had I tried to sell it now. Ken "FloridaBoy' Willaman
NO! I have been burned too many times over the years. Here is just one time: I paid for a couple locos in the 1980's that were in stock at the time of ordering. The company (long time advertiser in big magazine) cashed the MO (before having credit cards) did not ship ignored my attempts to contact them went out of business What make this worse is that I had purchased from them before without any problem. Gary
Sounds like what CMT did recently. Left a lot of people holding the bag. Answering my own question, I would NOT! put down a deposit for any model train. If the company can't finance the project on their own, I won't help.
No. The old adage of, "buying a pig in a poke" just screams at me for the very thought. I balk at the entire preorder system especially after the PCM/BLI PRR M1a fiasco.
The deposit system seems to often be used as a measure for whether or not they'll even run an item. So we sit and wait, while that process dribbles along for X period of time. Meanwhile, our money is hanging out there. If it was something I really, really wanted, just had to own, (and I could even afford it), and I could place my deposit with a retailer I trusted, then perhaps... Otherwise, no. I will most likely never own any more brass than has already passed through my hands.
Simply! No.... What I would like to see is Kato, produce some Northern's. For example: Alco built Union Pacific, FEF and a Baldwin built, Santa Fe Northern, both 4-8-4's. I'd break my own rules and put down a reserve. I might even pay forward. Brass, no way. Sorry about that.
Id have to agree with the majority. Why spend 2-3 times the price for brass when a plastic model runs flawlessly out the the box. Detail has gotten better. The new guys have forced the old guys to do better. By guys I mean manufactures.
All my brass runs flawlessly, but I cheated and got it from Verne Niner when he left N Scale for On30. They were constant runners on his layout, as they are are on mine now. In fact they run far superior to any of my Kato GS-4 units. I have no grief with brass, got several nice cabooses, several heavyweight passenger cars too. All work and roll well. It is only the deposit that I refuse to do.
