I put a deposit on an OMI MILW Little Joe when they were first announced. The LHS I ordered it at DIDN'T require me to put a deposit down, but I insisted. What he did was open an acct in my name. As I would make a purchase for say $60, I would give him $80-100 and have him put the remainder in my acct. I did this for about 3 years until the unit arrived. When it came time for me to pick up the unit, I still had about $80 in store credit afterwards. It worked well for me. I would do this again if a "have to have" unit was produced. And yes I would go back to the same LHS as I did before. I WOULD NOT buy from a company that required 100% payment up front to place an order.
There are some locomotives that will never be run in plastic, just plain and simple. There are some models that would sell well (F.E.F) but have not been run in plastic and I'm not sure why. If the price were decent and the detail were to exceed my Key 4-10-2, then I would as long as there was a written contract and 3rd party escrow as mentioned previously. In addition, there would have to be a defined production timeline. The last offerings in brass run as well or better than most plastic out of the box. My 4-10-2 runs better than my Kato GS-4s and I've heard that the -Yellowstones from Benchmark were superb runners with plenty of pulling power. The herky-jerky brass locos from the halmark days are in the past.
+1 .......... * I have to take that back...sorta. I did have to give a small deposit when I had my electric turned on years ago...LOL !!!!
For me it would have to be something ordinary, we already have enough extraordinary stuff like GS4's, Big Boys, Cab Forwards and Hiawathas, I want plain old ordinary Santa Fe steam like 2-10-2's, 2-8-2's, 4-6-2's, 2-6-2's, etc. I wouldn't put money up in advance but I would make a reservation on the condition that I could cancel once the model was actually produced and a production unit independently reviewed to ensure it didn't have any of the old brass characteristics mentioned by Floridaboy in the second post.
I have no brass engines at this point. I would like to get a nice brass Jordan Spreader, but when it comes to engines I don't see the need. I am definitely not going to lay down cash in advance. I've seen people plop down cash on engines based of of prototype photos, when the model shows up the details were entirely different. If I'm going to buy something I'm going to evaluate the product and then decide if it is worth the money or not.
I don't like having to 'reserve' anything train related (as in order before they are produced, no cash down). I used to never reserve anything but after missing a couple of pieces of rolling stock I have done this a few times since...HOWEVER I think that I will be waiting forever for IM to produce the Chateau Martin wine 40' 'milk' cars. Reserved them (it seems like) over two years ago and not only have they not ever come out with them, they no longer list them as a future production model (however the place I reserved them still lists them as available for reserve). I don't like MRFs using the reservation process to decide what they are going to produce. Obviously if I don't like reservations, placing a cash deposit for something that may or may not become available at some undefined future date is beyond stupid (IMHO). Sorry...
I have to say NO I would not lay down a penny for N-Brass. If you build it and I need and like your product I will buy. Simple. The perfect example is the Atlas Shay that is now over 5 years over due. This is from a reputable company and I'm sure those who put down deposits for them are probably dead by now or at best have forgotten they already purchased theirs in 2008.
I'm with Max...I might do it if there was an escro setup or crowdfunding deal. I have quasi-financed deals before, by donating money or putting money down *a little* early but we're not talking $1,000 either. I have had discussions with others about "pitching in" to develop products...not really wanting to get in the business, but driving a project/product down the right path and fronting the money to get it done with the idea not to LOSE money. Personally, I would never have need for a brass piece, most likely. But I do see the potential it still has for n-scale steam and cabooses. About the only thing I could think of would be some MOW equipment...Dampers, Alignment Equipment, etc. The one piece of brass I HAVE considered was MOW, the OMI Jordan Spreader. But, I would say substituting a high end, esoteric plastic or resin model into this question would be a similar kind of deal, especially if we are talking complete decoration on a limited run piece.
This could mean a manufacturer getting stuck with inferior product-- we'd probably agree that it would be 'deservedly so.' But online, nitpicking is frequently deemed as equivalent to more serious issues ("One scale inch, dude, how could they do this to us, total reject and if you buy it you're stupid!!!!") If I were a manufacturer I wouldn't bother to take the risk-- not when there is a universe of other stuff that could be produced. "We have to wait for (insert name of independent reviewer) to give a thumbs up"?? Really? I guarantee that would not fly in a manager's office. So under that scenario... no one gets anything.
Fortunately (according to the proprietor of my LHS), the buyers typically far outnumber the nitpickers. If a manufacturer lacks the skills and confidence to know that they (and/or their manufacturing subcontractor) can bring to market a sufficiently accurate model that will operate well, then maybe they should be making some other product such as R/C helicopters - where close resemblance to any know aircraft seems not to be a requirement. While some seem to enjoy it - and posting about it - I'm not interested in being a beta tester for a manufacturer, let alone having to buy the model in order to avail myself of the privelege. A savvy manager might consider hiring said independent reviewer as a consultant. Charlie Vlk has claimed to have worked/consulted in some capacity for several manufacturers - no doubt there are others that could do the same.
I'll have to agree to completely disagree with your views. Model locomotives are the only things I have to buy without being able to find out in advance the most important thing about them, how well they do what they are supposed to do, that is run and pull trains, I'm not talking about whether the steam dome is an inch to large in diameter and a half inch too far forward. I don't buy anything else for the four figure prices being asked for brass locos without reading (multiple if possible) independent reviews first. The procedure we are talking about here doesn't even give you the chance to test run it on a dealers test track.
I would think that brass is on pretty shaky ground right now. Think about it. The Shapeway-type products are sort of just getting going. Quality is often not quite what many people want. BUT! When someone starts offering these types of products with the quality that matches or comes pretty close to anything Atlas, Kato, or Life Like can do, then I predict there will be an EXPLOSION of products. I would positively build my own loco one day through such a process.
You might be making the distinction between what's more important, i.e. does it actually run, and what many consider to be less important. I personally agree with you there. (I said earlier in this thread that I will never put down a deposit for anything.) But let's just say that distinction is not made everywhere on line and gives the appearance that a one scale inch discrepancy is just as critical as lack of tractive effort. However, the idea that manufacturers are going to depend on reviews from people who don't work for them prior to try to selling their wares is just not practical. I can state with 100 percent accuracy, for example, that Micro-Trains doesn't consult with me, an independent reviewer, before deciding what they're going to produce. Yes, I am a sample size of one, but it gets the point across. I would submit that enough of the potential brass market shares your view-- "I'm not spending any money on this before I can fully test it or read a trustworthy source who has"-- that there is simply no point in taking the risk of making something that won't sell. These companies are not Too Big To Fail and one poor seller can result in going out of business. This is exacerbated in N Scale, which has a smaller potential market to begin with than the larger scales (whether we like it or not). The Internet Court of Public Opinion increases this risk of no sales because it gives a megaphone to those who do think that a scale inch discrepancy is just as punishable as a loco that won't run. So why not just make, say, grass mats, instead of brass models?
