I recently received 3D PlanIt as a birthday present. Now, I am not a stupid person; I can read, I can follow directions, etc., and I have done a fair amount of relatively complicated programming. I have attempted to work thru the tutorial, carefully trying to exactly duplicate the examples given. I find that the program simply does NOT respond in the same manner as illustrated. After more work last night and this morning, I’m beginning to see that the main problem – like so often with computer software - is not the program itself, but poorly written documentation, in this case magnified by pretty poor print quality of the manual. But the main problem I see is that regardless of scale everything shows on screen as HO gauge. If I draw a track plan in N, and place an RDC-1 on the track, according to the grid (which is set at 1 foot) the RDC is 12” long in N gauge! It is NOT!!! It should be only about 6 ¼ inches long. Then, of course, when one switches to 3d view, all the proportions are as if it were still in HO. The purpose for acquiring this overpriced monstrosity was to better visualize correct proportions. The only solution I can see is to recalculate my N track design (multiplying all measurements by a factor of 1.46) and draw the entire @&^%# plan in HO gauge. The frustration level and blood pressure has about risen to the point where I'm ready to kiss the $100 bucks off and go back to paper and pencil. Has anyone else here struggled with this... .... program? Thanks for input…help! Tell me I’m not stupid or crazy. Harpo Rob
Harpo, Do you have the units set up correctly in the program? Look under the File menu, Settings... A dialogue box will pop and there should be a number of tabs along the top. Look for "Units" and click on that. On the right hand side should be a little section that says "Model scale" You should be able to pick N Scale from the drop down menu. I've designed a fairly comprehensive layout in 3rdPlanIt for my own layout. There is a bit of a learning curve, it does frustrate at times, but I think I've certainly gotten my money's worth out of the program. My best piece of advice is to read and learn the theories in John Armstrong's book "Track Planning for Realistic Operations". I think the programmer uses that as a basis for his CAD program. My own opinions of course.
It can be a bit of a sod at times, and I agree the docs aren't brilliant. Have you been to the Yahoo group. They are (well, were; I've not been for a year or so) very helpful with helping people out.
I briefly tried the demo version and decided it was not worth banging my head against its learning curve.
As my father said: "That is why they put erasers on pencils" and as i appended, "and delete keys on keyboards" I don't know if you have seen my layout drawings in Paint. Here are my suggestions: What I have seen of the program is if you are a detail person stay with the prgram and it will serve you well. Join the yahoo group like suggested for ideas on how to use it If you are an abstract / artistic type person do your outlines on paper, use the program to get them to fit the mainline to your table space and finish the design _after_ you have the table built. Oh, and do the table area in Excel. I'll be happy to describe how i do it if you like.
After briefly with the 3rd PlanIt demo I quickly gave it up in favor of the now FREE XtrkCad Program. XtrkCAD (for me at least) didn't have near the learning curve and I was able to start creating CAD track plans in no time flat. For freeware it just can't be beat. My 0.02 worth. Mike C Phoenix Az
Harpo, First let me welcome you to the TrainBoard. I agree with your frustration. I bought 3rd Planit many years ago, and finally was able to use it to design my current layout. However, that required many, many e-mails and phone calls with the designer of 3rd Planit, who was (is?) also owner of El Dorado Software. He stressed that 3rd Planit is a CAD package similar in design to AutoCAD, although not as complex. Users with CAD experience should have little problem understanding and using 3rd Planit, but for all others the learning curve can be painful. It took me about 3 months before I was comfortable using the system to design a medium complexity track plan, and I retired from 40 years as a computer hardware and software systems engineer. 3rd Planit is a powerful, yet logical system once the user understands all the commands and sequences. Until then, a lot of patience is required! By the way, I uninstalled 3rd Planit after I had designed my layout, it was too much hassle to use...pencil and graph paper is much easier, and more forgiving! [ May 03, 2005, 08:40 AM: Message edited by: Hytec ]
File/setting - there a tab to setup the scale of the drawing (default is HO). if your truly interested in staying with this program you may want to checkout the following sites too. for general help http://groups.yahoo.com/group/3rdPlanIt and for additional add-ons http://3pi.info
I tried it and hated it.... Like Hank, I've had over 25 years with software and hardware, and NO general user program should be that hard to learn.... Pure and simple. So long as we keep paying these people to turn out poorly documented products, or products that are aimed at a small part of the population (without saying so clearly on the box), they'll keep making em. Remember, thse companies arent out to make software, their out to make money..... I tried just about all the software products for track layout planning, and dont like any of em. XTrkCad though, was the one that went closest (and its free). I'm sticking to pencil, paper, and drafting compass (for radii!), then faking it at construction time.
Greetings again, to all.. First, many thanks for all your responses to my planit dilema. Disisme especially, your statement about software for the general user not needing to be so obtuse...I had to jump out of my chair and scream 'yessssssssss!" You are absolutely right - a powerful program which does extremely complicated tasks does not have to be unnecessarily complicated and mysterious to use, only logical and organized according to the way people normally do the same task without it. (There's probably a lesson and a sermon in there, somewhere...) Also, many kudos to members in this forum. I have not discovered any board yet in which the members are as willing to help, and as courteous and respectful of each other, regardless of how dumb the questions may be. (And I haven't seen too many of those, either!) Harpo
Questions are NEVER dumb! At least the person knows and admits that they don't know. Some answers, on the other hand ......
I have had 3rd PlanIt for almost 4 years now and everytime I think I understand something and get a plan going I get confused, and have never been able to complete even a simple layout with the program. And the real problem is I like the program and either I just don't have the patience or it's just a little to powerful for the average user. After many attempts ( and I plan on continueing to use it till I can master a simple plan), I started using XtrkCAD, and because of the demo's you can view while working on your layout was able to finish a simple plan in a matter of hours. And after going through the entire demo you can choose sections of the demo to view as you are working on your plan. Good luck to all 3rd PlanIt users!
LOL. Maybe I am the lucky one, I followed the directions and tried. I succeded. I found it was great to use once you got used to what symbols meant what. I did most of phases, benchwork, road bed, track, bulildings, rolling stock placement. Was just getting into the terrain mesh, but the layout was commencing, so my attention turned there. I found out that is you set the basics, like track elevation and other items that are standards in the plan, it goes easier. I have had to adjust where the track connects sometimes. I looked at the 3D view and then go to back to the 2D and fix the problem. It was usually the elevation in the easement connections. Enough of my rambling, I just did not have that hard of time working with it. Nothing against any one here, but when you have plenty of time, you can try and try again. Adios Wyatt
I like the idea of model railroad cad software. I once bougth the right track software when it came out, and found what a joke. I wnet and bought the templates for ho, and I enjoyed it very much, did not mind the erasing, etc. I used graph paper and got hours of pleasure designing my layout. The final form of my layout was pretty close to what I had on paper. The brain thinks alot differently than the computer software.
