I fully agree! I am a 34 year N scale veteran and IF I was to get into the hobby now........I could not afford it. I remember when a decent running loco used to be $30 and a top of the line loco was $40. A train car was around $5. Look at the prices now $25 or MORE for a FVM, MTL, or Exact Rail just to name a few. Why the price increase other than inflation? Simple............our demands. More detail here, more detail there, prototype specific models, DCC ready, Sound decoders, blah, blah, blah. We are making this hobby an arm chair hobby in my opinion. We want EVERYTHING to be exact. Listen, this is a hobby. This is something we should do for fun. Not make it such a hobby that mfgs need to charge us arm and a leg just to turn a profit. I love this hobby and enjoy the modeling aspect of the hobby. Ok. I am done ranting now. I am sure I will get bashed for this but I really dont care. It is my honest opinion. Ryan
George, however in post 5, you mention not needing sound, however Atlas has only 1, ONE, uno, loco with sound, and its not even on shelves yet. The S-2 is the ONLY Atlas unit in N that comes from the factory with sound. All of the other locos come either DCC equipped or DCC ready. None have provisions for sound.
While I agree the hobby can be pricey at times, I have to disagree with you. You say you started the hobby in 1980? Well a $30 loco would be approximately $85 in today's money (adjusted with an inflation calculator). $85 is about what I paid for my CR heritage unit at my LHS. Not to mention the ability to pay much less for used or old stock items on eBay. Add some extra cost for pricier shipping and I'd say the price of our locos are about the same. AND they are more detailed, DCC ready, proto specific... blah blah blah. I think we are a long way from an arm chair hobby. Especially since the purpose of household items and old scraps can be re-invented for use on a layout. I re-kindled my interest in the hobby 5 years ago and had to start from scratch. While I have invested a lot (at times more than I probably should have), I found it WAAAYY cheaper than tuning cars. And the return on re-sale value is more reasonable. The old rule for building a car is upgrades do not change the NADA value, and most cars depreciate over time. Not the case for trains. This thread has been de-railed hahahaha
Yes, it derailed from the traditional post here about "mfg X should make exactly the Y that I want....and NOW!" to a general rant about all the mfgs charging too much. Yes, I get it. Its too expensive. We all spend more than we like....most spend more than we should (assuming a hobby budget ought to be 1-5% of disposable income to meet all your other obligations.) I agree the mfgs have built ever more detailed stuff. But we have shown over the years that those $5 cars and $30 locos from 1980 are still priced the same relative to inflation and much better. What has changed is the average middle class wage relative to inflation. Not sure Atlas can respond to that, other than with something like Trainman. Also, I think most of us are guilty of wanting too much stuff. And believe me, I am pointing my finger at myself as I type.......We could model a branch line or industrial park with one or two locos and a few dozen cars and get all the switching we need for fun. But, we don't, because mostly, we love trains and locos as much as we do the operations. Its almost as if the layout is just sort of justification for the collections. (again, finger pointed squarely at myself.....) Short version - most rants against our mfgs are pretty self centered, but only because we want more, and we want what we want, as all of us fell in love with trains at one specific place, time, and railroad that we are trying to mentally recreate. Maybe 3D printing will allow more of us to get exactly what we want than the current traditional mfg process. Not sure it will be any cheaper to produce, say 10 models of a particular thing that only one guy wants, but hopefully, it will be more satisfying. I would say that is where the opportunity lies in mfg of model railroad products, but as always, I could be wrong. Besides locos weathered to the exact day, maybe structures with just the right amount of ivy on the walls for a particular date. When will the demand for realism ever be satisfied? Sorry for the whimsy, but its always fun to think where MRR might be in the future. Probably, more digital and less real MRR.
Not trying to "win" anything. Just trying to educate. I'm not sure if you understand that the LAST Trainman loco *was* "ALL NEW". Atlas purposefully used cheaper components, an older mech design, cast fuel tank, and "one size fits all" shell to lower the cost. It seems to me that you only choose to recognize that last one as the reason they are cheaper, and that it's otherwise the same as a GP40. It is not. I repeat. It is NOT the same as a GP40. Not even close. I have no problem with anybody asking for a new locomotive of any kind. But I just want to make sure there is no confusion that saving that $15 is going to land you a less detailed shell on a master mech. THAT IS SIMPLY not the case...you can perpetuate that myth on the forums all you want, but it will never make it true. If folks want to take that chance for $15, then have at it.
Since this thread has drifted..... I'll share what Spookshow said about them. He's been good enough to provided unbiased reviews of locomotives for years now. http://www.spookshow.net/loco/atlasgp15.html Also the Model RR review of the same loco at the end. Yes, the shells do not have all the variations for different railroads etc, but your forgetting not everyone worries about that. I don't see where you get the idea the mech is an older design and the materials are cheaper. I've seen nothing in the 2 I own to suggest that. Split frame, 5 pole motor, flywheels, etc. The only thing different is the trucks make contact with the frame instead of the wipers on Masterline locos. And like I've said. I've experienced Masterline-like performance from mine. Others in the club have had the same from the ones they own. So if you own one and have had performance issues, I would have no idea why.
You answered your own question. If y'all want to ignore that difference as insignificant, that's fine. We'll see posts down the line about "Why doesn't my GP15-1 run as well as it used to?" and everyone will be just dumbfounded and whining about it. Don't worry, I won't say I told you so...not worth the time. I figure you can lead a horse to water...you know the rest. Spend your $15 wisely.
Because you don't know how to keep your locos in top running condition. Everything is the same except the contacts, keep them clean and the loco will preform just fine.
Warning shot for this thread - the tone is taking a turn into personal, insulting and argumentative. This needs to stop. Share your personal experiences and opinions, but not at the cost of belittling anothers.
I have quite a few Atlas locos (several GP35s, GP40s, a GP30, an SD24, an RS1, a VO-1000) and I've only had a problem with one. I have a U23B and the S2 on order and wouldn't hesitate to buy other Atlas locos. My only request of Atlas is a re-release of U30Bs in WP's orange and silver.
Thank You Eagle2! What I would like to see is that Atlas be consistent through out their locomotive product line with painted hand rails and steps.
The I is for isolated cab, so the cab has the nose/cab separation, and the handrails are not attached to the back of the cab. Atlas has not done a U30B in N scale yet...I'm wanting them to do one also.
Ha, that's very true. I was going to say that I'd be ok if Atlas did a Trainman version of the Gensets, since they sucked in real life, too. :teeth: They had to run them in (at least) pairs. It's not uncommon to see 4 or 5 lashed up together for transfer runs.
Guess I'm not much of a prototypical modeler then. Even my PC locomotives run great. My track work is not prototypical either as I have very, very few derailments. Unheard of for Penn Central in 1975. What on earth am I thinking????:teeth:
Ike is spot on. Thanks Ike. Also the front door is reverse mounted(hence the 80MAC cab). And don't forget some pretty Conrail blue paint and decals too. Here is a link to the CRHS's website EMD equipment page. http://thecrhs.org/ConrailEquipment/Locomotives/EMD for some comparison photos. If I decide to get past the Wheeling and Lake Erie bug that's bitten me, I'll so do this. I'll post some pics when I do.
