AC Gilbert Electric Turnout Question

As some of you already know, I acquired a huge lot of 1950s to modern day train stuff for $20.

In it was a left hand and right hand set of AC Gilbert electric turnouts.

I think some things are missing to them that are necessary for their operation.

What do I need to set them up?

 

Again, without a picture we are guessing.
I Googled ac gilbert switch tracks and I see they made S and HO scale.
To my knowledge all would be operated by AC. Too my knowledge, all ac gilbert was AC operated. Even inexpensive switch tracks today are AC operated. They work on DC but AC is usually better. Usually operated by a push button switch. Release the switch and the power turns off. Hold the switch too long and the twin coil burns out.

Rich

 

If you are not familiar with twin coil machines, one coil pulls the points one direction. The other coil pulls the points the other direction. Use a SPDT, spring loaded switch.

Rich

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Odd. The reason AC was used was A) all Gilbert S and Lionel 0 packs only had AC.
B) when Half Zero came along, they found it easier to use non-filtered AC for "accessories" and keep the load off the puny rectifiers of the day.

Coils don't care. I've seen half wave coils (so stated so you bought the half wave controllers for BIG bucks) that I have run off AC into a full wave bridge for...at least 19 years.
I've run switch machine coils on both AC and DC...used originally Atlas slip and push controllers, went to ACME (and still using those), used spring loaded centre off toggles.
Some folks even use wands and contact on control panels.
I have a letter in my files from NASA.....says "this is not rocket science".
Not recalling how many ports on those machines, just tell us two or three. Wired differently.
But, once we know, we can tell you how to test them to see if they're any good before you go to the trouble of finding controllers and such.

 

Well Cody, you got some great answers here. First time I've heard someone refer to a Gilbert Switch as a Turnout.

My only suggestion is to wire them up and see where they take you. There are all kinds of 12 volt AC and DC, power supplies out there and various electrical toggle switches - Spring loaded to Center off momentary on DPDT's that will activate the switches nicely. We had a set of these on that O&S Rail Link. I used the electrical toggle switches indicated above and a 12 volt AC power supply from Radio Shack. Worked smooth.

You can also use single pole single throw momentary on push buttons to activate and throw the switch.

Curious where or from whom did you get your set?

 

Here's the pics.

The paper bag on the right, I would assume came with them. It refers to a "control box" which did not come with them.


My Tyco power pack/speed control that came in that same lot only has one set of connectors for AC accesories. Will I have to purchase a different one in order to use these turnouts?

 

That is weird. Those look for all the world like old Atlas snap switch machines.

Using the AC Accessory output on your pack, apply one leg to the centre post of the machine. Momentarily touch the other wire to one of the other posts, then the last one. Machine should throw normally, back and forth.
This will tell you if the machines still work, and that's how you wire them...one leg of pack to centre post of machine, the other leg of the pack to you controller. Atlas controllers, just follow the instructions provided. They can "gang", three legs out so no separate wire to machines. You use three conductor ribbon cable.

 

This is the "new" one from Atlas:
http://www.atlasrr.com/trackmisc/57switchcontrol.htm

This is an old one:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v372/Smitty49/SwitchMachineVoltage.gif

This is wiring:
http://www.modeltrainforum.com/gallery/files/5/0/7/switch_diagram.jpg

 

Common knowledge that AC Gilbert was only AC. Even Google will tell you that.
Use a DIY capacitive discharge unit. Safest way to operate these switches, turnouts whatever but right off the AC terminals is ok.

I included links if you need more info as yoiur railroad grows.


Sometimes the points can stick and some hold down the switch too long. That has happened to many over the years.
A resistor and cap are basic. They can be sophisticated.

I made a couple many years with a ½ watt resistor and 10,000 ufd cap. Don't remember the resistor value.
I included a circuit that lights an LED to tell me the CDU is ready.
One of the links shows you.
Circuitron sells a Snapper. Can fire more than one at a time.
Those are about $20 the last time I priced them.



http://www.hmrg.co.uk/techtops/bigcpu.htm


http://home.cogeco.ca/~rpaisley4/CDPSU.html

Rich

 

Of course that has nothing to do with controlling what appears to be an old Atlas switch machine.
To say Gilbert was only, ever a.C. is not right.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Flyer
Their Half Zero went DC after WWII.
No. 15 Directronic Rectifier came in late 40's.
So...if we're talking Gilbert Half Zero, DC in postwar.
EVERYBODY used AC for switch machines back then, crimeny, probably still do. Hence the 14-16VAC accessory outlets on packs.
[h=2][/h]

 

The more important question at hand is: Why on earth are you hassling with all this ? Are you in S scale ? HO scale ? What ? It was $20 dollars, not $200 or $2,000. HO or S, do yourself a favor and buy up to date, state of the art track, trains and throttle (DCC is where it's at now). That 1950s Gilbert stuff is like the Wright Bros. airplane compared to a Boeing 757...Leave alone it's mixed with Atlas HO ? Did Atlas make S stuff ever ? Put that stuff away and fuggeddaboudit !!

 

Without some specific measurements, one has to suspect Cody has figured out the old Gilbert track connects to the Atlas, connects to the AHM...
We are not talking S gauge here. Gilbert made Half Zero, as did Lionel.
I'm trying to get him up and running with the stuff he has available, without getting an EE, with what I suspect to be minimal tools and equipment.
That is why I explained how to test a switch machine with two wires.
And the diagrams as to how to wire those machines, IF they are in fact electrically the same as the old Atlas machines.
The test with wires to "accessory" ports will tell us.
Now we wait for a response.

For the record, I'd rather run a 1950's Gilbert Half Zero locomotive, made in the US of A than ANY PRC made planned obsolescence units available today.

 

Little bit of research shows those are 1961-1962 Pikemaster AC Gilbert switches:
http://www.gilbertho.org/track_power/34723.htm

 

My suggestion is meant to make it fun for him. Encouraging him to continue with the quickly, green-oxidizing brass rail stuff and old open frame motors with no fly wheels, still DC (or, is it in fact AC like their S scale American Flyer was ?), I ask, what is the advantage of ' learning the ropes ' this way, only to learn eventually how archaic this is, having now dealt with its frustrations for months or years ? If it is in fact 2 rail AC, in order to isolate locos he's going to have to deal with insulating blocks and wiring in a SPDT toggles/panels and all the rest. ​Look, whether or not I'm on the same page with everyone, he could skip all this and slowly buy modern components; some code 83 snap track, a non spectrum Bach, an Atlas/Athern small switcher ( $30-$45 /no sound. ) If DCC control is too pricey he can still buy DC stuff and easily find a used MRC powerpack, But now we're back to isolating blocks and reversing sections...yada yada yada.. At any rate I think if he starts fresh with new, modern components he will remain happy, and not frustrated over dealing with all kinds of mismatches and searches for components from same era.. This is the essence of my narrative from the start ...In a hobby, no one need 'learn the ropes'. It shouldn't feel like boot camp. It should feel like a visit to the planetarium, a zoo, the thrill of going to the top of the Empire State building or knitting a sweater (actually, for this, you would need to ' learn the ropes ' ! ) ....I do hereby resign from any more involvement in this thread..I've done what I can.......All the best, ...Mark

 

Surprisingly, only maybe two of the Atlas pieces had a tiny bit of oxidation, as if they were kept in a closet or something for the 30+ years. And it still works good, except for the fact that I have an only 3 year old broken Bachmann F9 loco that needs fixing or replacing.

Honestly, I like collecting the old fashioned stuff. The older stuff will fit in with my Matchbox Regular Wheel collection, most of which is 1/87 scale trucks, construction equipment, and emergency vehicles. That will be most of my layout vehicles when I start. I have only a handful of HO vehicles in my diecast collection, mostly Bachmann Plasticvilles, and a Wiking O&K excavator (I regret paying $15 for it, but it was made in Germany, NOT China). I have a list of them, but why are they so darn expensive for a tiny model?

One thing I've learned when buying this stuff is, there's a LOT of people who really don't know much , and charge little for them, just so they can rid themselves of it. I've found that's the best way to buy them. I've found plenty of old locomotives in the $15-50 range as well as rolling stock for $5-15 each, while a new loco is $60 new at least. It seems that often I find trains, locos, and rolling stock at the flea market as well.

This DCC stuff looks complicated and not easy to troubleshoot if something breaks. However, I might move on to that when I can afford the $150 or so for a DCC compatible loco. I have a simple setup. Assemble track Screw wire to Tyco Power Pack, then screw wire to terminal track. Plug in Tyco Power Pack. Set loco and rolling stock on track, then increase throttle

So far, the only compatibility problem I've got is old (horn) couplers from the '80s, versus the modern Kadee knuckle couplers that come on most new stuff. I'll replace them when I'm ready, as so far the '80s Bachmann Caboose is the one that needs them, and it has broken trucks. I've also had issues of worn-out, broken or missing track connectors, and damaged track in the second hand lot I've bought. I remedied that with new track connectors attached to each piece.

Dad also has an old Lionel set, which he had as a kid, but has misplaced it in the 30+ years since he last used it. When it's found, I hope to amalgamate that into my layout. However, if it's anything like the Tyco slot car set he had, it'll be a whole afternoon of de-rusting track (it was kept in a leaky garage, and it had rats nests in it), and a week of allergies from accidentally inhaling dust. Next time, I think I should remember to wear a respirator!

However, I think I'll just display these AC Gilbert switches, as they're likely worn out by now, plus that track bed is really fragile. Plus they're more than 50 years old! I'll buy new when I'm ready to expand my layout.

 

Geez. One can only hope.
As I put into this thread earlier, with the original of Gilbert was always AC....hogwash. Unless you have pre-war (and that's WWII, not Afghanistan), it's dc.
Nothing wrong with brass. Clean it once in a while or treat it.
Trying to think....but none of my Half Zero engines have flywheels. I do believe all of them are open-frame motors.
I would rather put clockwork mechanisms in them before I went dcc.
Any engine I get in any scale...if it has any kind of socket, that socket gets cut out and the unit hardwired. I am not going to deal with any more levels of PRC electronics.

Before folks encourage him to build capacitive discharge circuits, or cut what he has up, spend the money for dcc and install it, buy new track...get him running.

You must have missed the "did I do good?" thread.
The loco he got is all plastic, Dept. 56, battery power, red plastic drivers.

Yes, he could find a donor locomotive, pull the chassis, convert to can motor, throw the track away and buy new NS track, buy dcc and install it...but not for the twenty bucks he has in it.

Why is he going to have to wire insulating blocks? Same deal when you find someone with one loop of track, four cars and one locomotive..."what brand dcc should I buy?" Answer is..none.
You've got one engine.
Get it running first, figure it out.

Wiring blocks and toggles is so freaking simple it's not even funny.

All he has is Half 0, or close to it. No S, no 0, no N, not even any Z came in that batch.
He doesn't even need to power the switch machines. Just slide the knob back and forth.

When I was a kid, we'd run for years without wiring up the Atlas machines.

He'll probably spend the big bucks and put Tortoises under the foam benchwork, wired to dcc decoders, so it's all really pointless...but this gets him running on battery power.

Okay..one more. Let's say someone wants to get into RC airplanes. He goes to a forum full of ex-spurts. They steer him to a stand-off scale B-29 with four engines and two control units (gotta run the bombay doors, nose steering, flaps, brakes, start up, rotate the gun mounts, landing gear...).
He'll never get it off the ground before he prangs it.
Start out with a very cheap, resilient, single engine with no flaps, landing gear, any of that and learn the ropes, working your way up.

 

Easy fix on the couplers. Make one adaptor car for now until you know what you want. I have removed all Kadees from everything I have in Half 0 and Large Scale. Just to upset the staunch nmra types locally, I use Mantuas on my Half 0. Seriously.

In the old, old days, when I was first starting out, there were dummy knuckles, DeVore/Roundhouse, Mantua, Baker...at least. The guys would take some 1/8" plywood, usually a scrap from the floor of a boxcar kit, screw a bolster and one truck on it, then different couplers on each end. They'd have 4, 5, 6 or even more various adaptors sitting at the end of a yard track, use them as needed. Take one of your cars, Kadee on one end, leave the X2F on the other. For now it will work.

On rust Lionel track...ScotchBrite. Works for me.