Hi all, Does anybody out there know what typicall loads where fro the D&RGW ACF 2 bay and 4 bay covered hoppers? Did they carry identical loads? I want to build a suitable loading facility for my hoppers. regards, Frank
Frank, I don't claim to know a lot about what products were carried on what cars, but a little knowledge of physics will generally carry you a long way. Let's look at it. A 4 bay hopper is 60 feet long. Maybe more. A two bay hopper is 35 feeet long. Both have the basic same trucks, maybe a little different, but it can't be much. A truck can only carry so much weight, as also the RAIL can only support so much weight at any given time, as is true with the track and roadbed. Soooooooooooo. If you put powdered cement in a 60+ foot car, the trucks would shatter, the rails would collapse, or the track would flex and pretty soon, there would be headlines in the paper about another spill. On the other hand, if you filled a 35 foot car with grain, you would be seriously under utilizing its ability to haul weight. You would go bankrupt for shipping costs. So, logic says, REAL HEAVY STUFF GOES IN SMALL BEEFY CARS. L ighter stuff can be carried in bigger cars. Thats why gondolas are so short on their sides. So some idiot doesn't put 300 toms of scrap steel into a 100 ton gon. Dump trucks have short sides. Wood chip trucks have very high sides. Comprendo?
Frank Good question with complex answers. My friend above has given you a lesson in modern physics like an engineer or an academic would. Now you need a lesson in history. First, look at your models and see the Built and Reweigh dates. These are not contemporary types. The 4 bay is an evolution of the much earlier 2 bay style that started in the 192/30s? The first DRGW covered hoppers were homebuilt out of 2 bay coal hoppers in1942. I dont have enough info to expound on those; but the first commercial types bought in 1946 were the Gen American de facto standard of the time 1958 cuft, mainly for Portland cement loading. More small batches followed (25 or less) 1949, '51 etc. but usage grew to other product, minerals and sugar (Colorado sugar beet plants). The 4 bays ACF Centreflows (Orange) did not come along until 1973, when many of the 2 bays would have been OOS or on MOW duty. Rio Grande had a large variety and fleet of mostly 'grey' 3 Bays from 1957-1990's and these are the most 'typical' ones to be seen. I'll attached a graphic timeline that gives further idea of this progress. Covered Hoppers (LO class) are at the bottom of graphic. As my main interests lie with transition era so I always follow the 'modelling' philosophy that I buy early types and can then use the cars at most later periods when I want to. ** Forgot to say, for 'loads' go to <http://www.drgw.org/data/> then Freight Rosters for your desired time frame, then select type of car. The RHS columns of these tables give an indication of loads and/ or special lading/ modifications to various numbers. Best reference is Jim Eagers Rio Grande: Color guide to freight and passenger equipment ©Morning Sun 1996 <http://www.amazon.com/Rio-Grande-freight-passenger-equipment/dp/1878887645/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpi_2> cheers dave
D&RGW covered hoppers Hi Frank, If you could give us some road numbers and other information, I am sure we could supply some more info. Dave and Frank supplied some valuable answers as well.
This is a good question. It boils down to which covered hopper loadings were actually done on the Grande. A lot of the Grande's traffic in the transition era was bridge traffic, meaning that freight cars traversed the Grande without being loaded or unloaded. The reality of the D&RGW is that there were actually very few industries located along its trackage. Is there a particular area you were planning to model? This can narrow things down. For example, the Marysville branch produced wallboard and sugar beets, requiring (respectively) bulkhead flats and gondolas. During the transition era, I believe there was a large cement plant and a sugar plant in Denver that the D&RGW served, and both of these required 2-bay hoppers. After the mid-1960s, lots of big covered hoppers were needed to support the potash operation on the new branch down to Moab.
Contemporary 2-bay covered hoppers, like ACF's Centerflows, were 100-ton cars designed to haul dense loads, like cement. Their larger 3 and 4-bay brethren, while usually still having 100 ton capacities, were designed for lighter-density loads, like grain or flour. Their sizes had to do with the fact that a low-density product like grain will "cube out" the cubic capacity of a smaller 2-bay car way before you hit the cars' tonnage rating. Conversely, load a 3 or 4-bay covered hopper to its cubic maximum with a dense product like cement, and you'll wind up with a seriously overloaded car tonnage wise. In short, keep the smaller 2-bay cars for heavy commodities, and keep the larger cars for lighter loads like grains, sugar, flour, etc.
bryan, you paint a creaky picture... If it was bridge traffic then it wasnt in Rio Grande cars- autoracks and appliance and carparts run thrus excepted. So he IS asking about Colo-utah originated loads- and there were many, and these were in home road cars- you wouldnt pay to use foreign road cars when both source and destination were within your primary ops areas. You have over 'generalised' the Rio Grande because there were few 'on the road' switching industries- however broad brush doesnt include the many communities (from single mine or farm entities to the major SLC/ Denver/ Pueblo and everything inbetween). Frank might want to refine his criteria to locality, or just represent the broader Rio Grande and what is typical traffic, without the need for actual switching or train make up. cheers dave
The cement plant in Portland CO was a big supplier for the Grande until the end. There are many pictures of D&RGW two bays on the head end of TP freights. I personally have photos of two bays lined up on the siding there, not just D&RGW, but many other roads as well. Bryan is correct that the Potash branch needed a lot of covered hoppers.
Which ACF 2 Bay Frank? 1968 ACF 2970 cuft ~ designed for pressure/differential unloading 1974 ACF 2970 cuft ~ gravity gates- cement quoted 1977 ACF 2980 cuft ~ gravity gates- cement quoted ACF 4 Bay Centerflow 5250cft ~"mainly grain with gravity gates, although the (production order) was split and the first 25 (15500-15524) were equipped with gravity-pneumatic outlets" (meaning a finer grade product was going to be carried in those- your guess). dave
Rod, Can you expand on the 'foreign road' LO hoppers that would have appeared? Naturally I'm wanting realistic 'neighbourhood' cars and can't imagine that they would have been moving far? Haven't seen any expansion of this on other lists? Whilst MP and RI are a natural intention, I've only collected a few SP and ATSF Atlas cars thus far. regards dave
Portland CO The cars I have pics of are CB&Q and BN and are older 2-bay ch's. ATSF and MP would seem likely candidates as well since they interchanged right down the line in Pueblo. I would also think that later in the 1980's there could have been a lot of private cars in and out of there. However, there are a lot of photos of anywhere from 6-12 D&RGW 2-bay cf ch's on the front of the 175 or 177 trains. Another interesting car would have been from Whitewater Building Materials in Grand Junction. They were the bright orange, short PD cars. There were also some painted gray. I will post some pics if you would like.
