"After PTC, Now What"

Hytec Jan 16, 2021

  1. Hytec

    Hytec TrainBoard Member

    13,976
    6,937
    183
    I've just read the Trains' February article about the Subject. It discusses the accomplishments of PTC's first generation implementation. But, more importantly, it discusses the possibilities of expanding the capabilities of PTC communication technology to allow railroads to become more efficient, more competitive with trucking,

    The visions, all realizable, are based on cooperation of the four/five Class-I railroad companies, and more importantly, the FRA, a federal regulatory agency. That last sentence is very crucial because trucking companies are independent companies. They make and implement management decisions quickly without federal regulatory agency approval. Whereas railroads must, first cooperate, the ask the FRA for aproval,

    So while the railroads will become competitively efficient eventually. the trucking industry will have been doing it for the previous many years and locking customers into long term contracts.
     
    Hardcoaler likes this.
  2. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 HOn30 & N Scales Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

    67,639
    23,044
    653
    How long would it take to become cooperative, plus the time wasted while waiting for the gears of inefficient government to grind away....? :(
     
  3. Hytec

    Hytec TrainBoard Member

    13,976
    6,937
    183
    I forgot to mention that the government provides the truckers all the roads they need virtually free of charge. Whereas the railroads must use much of their capital budget to maintain their "roads".
     
    Kurt Moose and Hardcoaler like this.
  4. Dave1905

    Dave1905 TrainBoard Member

    266
    285
    22
    Comparing trucking companies to railroad companies is not exactly apples to apples. Trucking companies don't worry as much about interoperability. A FedEx tractor won't be used by UPS. The "smart" equipment, the tractors aren't shared. With a railroad, they share equipment, so the an engine that has to be able to operate on Amtrak's signal system has to be able to operate across the UP's 3 different signal systems. Also with a trucking company they don't have to worry about the "road". I don't mean in the paying for it, but in the physical arrangement. The road is static, and the vehicles determine where the truck goes. A railroad has switches and the physical plant determines where the vehicle goes. If the train wants to go left and the switch is lined right, the train's going right.

    There is also a different level of safety for the systems. To my knowledge, the trucking software really doesn't care which lane the truck is in. Railroads on the other hand are very concerned about which track the train is on. Getting GPS precision down to +- 6 ft is tougher/more expensive than you would think.

    There is also the communication requirements. Most of the highway systems, such as the GPS in your car, is one way communication, your car receives information, but doesn't send any. With PTC its two way communication. PTC equipped engines have several antennas on the roof for multiple communication methods, a couple different radio bands, cell phone data, etc.

    PTC is all about stop. There is other software, two different systems, that control go.
     
  5. Hardcoaler

    Hardcoaler TrainBoard Member

    10,760
    45,456
    142
    Railroads hope to "monetize" (their term, not mine) their government-mandated spending on PTC. The lower hanging fruit will be using the reams of PTC data collected daily on terminal dwell, tonnages, train velocity, fuel use, crew costs and a dozen other variables to optimize operations. The next step will require radical regulatory change and that would be single crewmember or even crewless trains. Trust in the technology will have to come a long way before regulators would even take a glance at such proposals.

    PTC seems to do nothing but contribute to terminal delays around here.
     
  6. Martin Station

    Martin Station TrainBoard Member

    304
    681
    17
    Back some years ago when I was working at an airport FBO which services mostly private and corporate aircraft as well as fuel for the airlines, one of our customers at the time was Overnight Trucking. If I remember correctly, one of their pilots told me that they were owned by the Union Pacific Railroad at that time. Maybe that's the answer, the railroads can by into the large trucking companies (if allowed by the goverment) and use the profit windfall to help subsidies the railroads. I know that may sound crazy but I also remember during the 70's fuel shortage, our oil company customers were buying into coal and copper mines as well to insure that they would stay strong reguardless of how the energy situation panned out.
     
    Hytec likes this.
  7. Dave1905

    Dave1905 TrainBoard Member

    266
    285
    22
    On the railroad I worked for, we had all that data for years before PTC.
     
  8. Dave1905

    Dave1905 TrainBoard Member

    266
    285
    22
    That was a HUGE debacle for the UP. Never really paid off and was a big money loser. Ended up selling it to UPS for a huge loss. The sad part was that the UP already had 48 state truck line authority when it bought the MP, the MoPac Truck Lines had ICC authority to operate in the entire lower 48 states since the 1970's. Railroads have owned truck lines since at least the 1950's. They were originally bought to provide drayage services in conjunction with piggy back service and at various times have expanded or contracted depending on what the railroads were trying to do. The problem with truck lines is that they are generally competing with the railroad's other customers and with the railroad itself. If you are underbidding your customers and underbidding yourself, you probably aren't bringing alot to the bottom line. The railroad ends up making more money by letting somebody else operate the truck line and they provide the rail/piggyback services.
     
    Martin Station likes this.
  9. Hardcoaler

    Hardcoaler TrainBoard Member

    10,760
    45,456
    142
    In 1984, Norfolk Southern bought North American Van Lines, then sold it at a loss four years later. I'm guessing that a trucking operation within a much larger railroad organization would be regarded as a red-headed stepchild, a misfit not well understood. It's one thing to operate an intermodal service, but quite another to run a motor carrier. The Santa Fe Rwy. too jettisoned what remained of Santa Fe Trail Transportation.

    The Motor Carrier Act of 1935 and Transportation Act of 1940 allowed that railroads could only operate motor transportation that was "auxiliary and supplementary" to rail transport. Somewhere along the timeline, this must have been relaxed.
     
    BNSF FAN likes this.

Share This Page