...I now feel somewhat vindicated for some previous rants. In the last few years I have seen the price of N Scale rolling stock and locos go thru the roof. When I got back into model railroading...rolling stock was near the 8.00 range and locos where in the 25-30 dollar range. Life was good. When rolling stock jumped to 11.00 and locos moved up to the 50.00 range...I was ticked off. When rolling stock jumped to near 15.00 apiece and locos where at 75.00...I was livid. At 18.00 each for rolling stock and locos nearing 100.00...I was chewing barbed wire and spitting nails !!! Now that alot of rolling stock has breached the 20/30 mark and locos have shyrocketed past the 130/150 range...I am more then ever content to shop for 'used" stuff and shop harder for bargains. With the economy being what it is...I now see some who previously had no problem with some of the higher pricing 'back then' now complaining about higher prices. This makes me grin. I know that seems a little mean...considering. But it sure makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside when others now find the shoe on the other foot. Gather around the burn barrel in the alley my friends...we will share the heat. Lets all piss and moan together !! The problem is...I dont know if there is any 'going back'...as far as pricing is concerned. With people daily demanding better and more prototypical stuff...we ourselves as modelers have driven the prices so high. Now the manufactures cant or wont reverse their prices. Those with still deeper pockets may well shrudge their collective shoulders and trudge forwards. Those of us who started, and may still have, thinner pockets along with those who daily find themselves now on the outside looking in with us...I just sigh and hope they feel our pain. I forsee more and more manufactures shooting themselves in the foot. Some will survive...others will perish as so many before them have. Relax..breath...It most likely will only get worse from here. :tb-sad: Steps off my soapbox and heads for the trainroom... *sigh* .
Ahh, to go back to the days when you could buy boxy looking Lima/MP/whatever GP30's with stamped metal handrails for $6 or oversized Bachmann F units that did a lap around the layout before you parked them for good. I remember saving up for weeks to pay $25 for the old Atlas, Roco built GP9, I think I spent longer saving for it than I did running it. I don't think we are so bad off today, maybe we can't afford to buy as much, but what we can buy is light years ahead of what we could back then.
We got us a honest RANT...how about that? George, I have no bones to pick with your rant or previous rants. I didn't know you could write like a MBA. Very impressive. The price of our toys is reaching a point that most things are not within my means. So Rant away while I sit in quiet RAGE! Have fun.
Plus eBay and train shows make loads of older stuff available. Those can be upgraded (or not) to the degree that you desire. There is something to be said for the nearly lost element of model railroading that involves building and kitbashing models. Atlas still continues to release older models in their Trainman line at something like the old prices. Has your business/former business continued to charge the same prices as they did in the 90s, 80s, 70s and do they still produce essentially the same quality of goods as they did then? My beef is that most manufacturers now seem to largely limiting themselves to extremely popular roads for rolling stock. Can't blame them, but some variety would be useful. Frisco cars, anyone?
$8 rolling stock and $30 loco's are more than just a few years back...at least 15-20. Easy source to check - Atlas past products 10 years ago - Atlas SD35 - http://www.atlasrr.com/NLoco/nsd35.htm DC - MSRP $89 / DCC MSRP $124 9 years ago - Atlas Loco B-23 from 2000 - http://www.atlasrr.com/NLoco/nb237.htm DC - MSRP $99 / DCC MSRP $134 Even with good discounting - $60-70 for the DC version. 10 years ago - 60' auto parts box - http://www.atlasrr.com/NFreight/nddboxcar.htm MSRP $14.95 - Good discounting $10 9 years ago and more complex - Pressure Aide Centerflow - http://www.atlasrr.com/NFreight/npressure.htm MSRP $18.95 - Good discounting $15 It's been more than 10 years since you have seen prices as low as you are quoting for new products. Blow out pricing from Life Like for fire sale overstocks and early junk from Bachmann doesn't count.
I'm with skipgear on this. I've been in the hobby about 13 years and the first loco I remember getting with my father was the Life-Like F40PH for no less than 60, along with the ConCor superliners at 10/car. And neither the loco nor the cars ran worth a darn. This was also at a time that gasoline was less than a dollar a gallon, and minimum wage was at 4 something an hour. This has never been a cheap hobby.
sure the price has gone up ... but so has the quality of the product. Alot of the older stuff is laughable at best when it comes to quality and/or accuracy
If its low price you want then go to ebay and pick up some Bachmann diesels new out of the box in the $20 range. And some freight car deals are there if you look around. But quality is what you pay for. If you look at the selection that Atlas now offers in N scale its mind boggling. And they do have their lower end freight cars that are decent quality at a decent price. Obviously a lot of folks out there have been hit hard by the economy. I am greatful I have dodged the job loss thing....so far.
There may be some deals Bachmann diesels, but I noticed Bachmann EZ-track is unbelievably high. I can’t even look at eBay anymore because my blood starts to boil. Almost everything is selling on eBay for more than what I can purchase it retail. The only things I buy on eBay anymore is the non-train stuff, at least I can still find a bargain there. I feel for those who are just starting out, because if I would have known how much it was going to end up costing me, I would never gotten in to trains especially N-scale.
They're also called "Trainman." Atlas has done a great job on the GP15 for about $50-60 street price. I can't tell a lot of difference in this and their regular offerings. I strongly recommend against buying any loco based on price alone. If it doesn't run well, it goes on the shelf and becomes a WASTED $40. Buy quality and buy less is my advice. That is the difference between VALUE and PRICE. On the other hand, quality of Atlas and Kato has been so good for the last 20 years, buying used on EBay or wherever is also a great value. While I feel the pain, and fall in the category of now watching my purchases because of the economy (double whammy - income down due to that, net worth down due to divorce) we have run the math here a few times and in essence, no matter how far back you go, locos and rolling stock basically go up a bit less than inflation, and yet the quality keeps getting better and better. In truth, locos are a great value right now, compared to historical prices and offerings, despite recent jumps due mostly to the falling dollar and overseas manufacturing. No one can control that. I sometimes question whether rolling stock needs so much detail if it raises cost. I still run a lot of 20 year old MDC cars, for instance, and when in a train, they don't offend the eye much. The advantage of N is in long trains, not the detail of each car, IMHO. That said, I understand why Autoracks cost $40 instead of less than $20 - its almost two cars, and there is all that detailed panel work, etc. But, I am one of the lucky ones with a layout big enough to run autoracks and long trains, so I need to be careful to keep things in perspective.
Tony....I have nothing but the utmost respect for you...and you are not one I would want to call foul on...but...could you show me anywhere on those pages that suggests that those are 1999 prices? The only dates I find anywhere show "Copyright © 2006 Atlas Model Railroad Co" That notwithstanding... I know what I paid 3 years ago for rolling stock and locos. I still have my reciepts! Even someone like yourself has to agree that in the last 3 years prices have gone thru the ceiling at a pace that makes the head swim !! I will never agree that collectors are keeping prices down...quite the contrary. I believe collectors demanding nothing but the absolute best of the best...and manufactures buckling to those demands has driven prices beyond the reach of the average modeler !! Like I said earlier...some manufactures will survive shooting themselves in the foot catering to such a specific group...others will perish !! Just My Opinion and I am sticking to it...ty .
In my best Jimmy Stewart voice.Well gee whizz George you sound like me when it comes to the prices. Here's my solution to the problem.I got tired of forking over mega dollars for engines and cars so,I started buying at the best discount and hitting the use shelf including horse trading...I recently reopen a e-bay account(I closed my old account in 2005 and swore off e-bay) but, there seems to be some fairly good deals of late and thought I will give it another go... I am not concern about the economy as many are-I'm retired and have a limited hobby budget and still manage to get what I want/need unless a emergency arises like my last car repair. However,I have no doubts buying at on line discount and use equipment as stretch my hobby dollars.
Those are the release pages for the loco that were created at the time of their announcement. It would be different if I called out some of the trainman stuff that shows multiple releases on one page and the price has been adjusted with each release. Each of those pages was generated when the loco was announced for pre-order. Atlas would have no reason to change them. I can go dig up my 1999 Walthers catalog and confirm the pricing listed. I've worked in a hobby shop for close to 12 years now. The main thing that has taken a fairly large jump in price has been track. In that 10-12 year period, track prices have jumped 25-30% or more. I have had to reprice Atlas track twice in the past few years, each time a 10-15% price increase. The loco's and rolling stock have not increased by nearly as much but the changes that have happened came with the oil price jump in the past 3-4 years. Along with that, my $3 value meal from McDonalds is now $5-6. A two liter of Pepsi averages around $1.49 when we used to think $1 was high and would get them on sale for 75 cents. Everything costs more. The guys working at Atlas, Kato, Intermountain, Bachmann, etc. need to buy those $5 value meals just like us so they need to make sure to cover their behind and make enough profit to survive. I'm feeling the brunt as much or more than most, heck I work at a hobby shop, the pay stinks. I still buy trains, and I'm a sucker for any new steam. With the Heritage ACe's I think I am done buying loco's for a while, unless it is steam. With all the modern equipment coming out, my steam era layout is safe from large expenditures for a while. I'm glad I have no interest in intermodal or I would be tempted over extend things with all the new announcements.
I agree Larry... I shop discounts, firesales, and lose leaders myself. I had an ebay account but just cant bring myself to reopen it...with ebays fees and paypals fees...I just cant justify doing that. I do shop at the TB store and TB auctions. I feel buying from people here puts my mind at ease more...as I believe the guys here take better care of their stuff and I dont have to worry to much that some guy is just trying to dump his 'junk' on unsuspecting buyers. It's older stuff (at least a year) but still good quality. The average modeler cant afford "NEW" no matter how ya look at it. There are those who try to sell their old stuff at a price that would give them enough to buy the NEW stuff which is just laughable. If I was going to buy at that price...I would buy the NEW stuff myself ...lol. .
Thanks Tony... Like I said...I really have no reason to doubt you...its all respect ^5 And as far as the price of oil...and the general increase in the cost of living...I agree also. BUT...the demand for more prototypical n scale stuff has also driven the price way up. You can bet the average modeler isnt the one screaming for such accuracy and detail...JMO...thnxs .
If I remember correctly the Atlas/Kato Gp 35s I bought in late ‘80s early ‘90s sold for around $65 street. They had split-frames, dual flywheels and the frictionless trucks, just like the current Atlas Gp’s now selling for around $78 street. That’s only a $13 increase over a 20 year span. Yes, the recent Atlas C40 six-axle loco was too pricy for my taste and the drive to include DCC and sound in everything could bring my new loco purchases to a complete halt. I for one look forward to new Trainman locos selling at the $65 mark. Now the steep increases in rolling-stock prices make me glad I got a dozen old Con-Cor auto-racks at a closeout sale for $8-$9 apiece. No $25 cars for me thank you very much I don’t care how much detail they have.
From reading this and other forums..... We want road-specific prototypical details on all our models. We want them with no price increases. We want a deep, deep discount from the hobby shop. We want to lynch the mfgs because the announced boxcar is a B-50-3, not a B-50-2. We want them with different couplers. We want them with different wheelsets. They're running 12 different roadnames, but not mine? How stupid are they? My roadname isn't in the first batch? Infidels! Pitchforks and torches! They should be designed for my 30" minimum radii. Those with less are just playing trains. I haven't even seen this new loco, but it's crap and I'm sending it back. If this hobby is so abusive to you, why stay? It's fine to be passonite about something, but seriously, this is a hobby. If you don't derive pleasure from it, maybe it's time to move on.
