A while ago someone posted about internet stores that don't keep much if anything in stock. Here's my experience with one of them. I ordered 3 items from them and paid by Paypal on March 26. Two of these items were "clearance" items which would make you think they had them and were trying to clear them out. Their website indicated the items were available and did not say they were not in stock. After a week my order had not shipped and I contacted them to find out why. They told me 2 of the 3 items were not in stock, but that one would be in stock the following week. I asked them to cancel 1 of the items and refund my payment for that item, and said I'd wait for the other item to arrive. Now, nearly a month after I've paid, the one item they said would arrive the following week hasn't arrived (their website says it will be available in July) and I found they hadn't credited me for the cancelled item. So I called yesterday and asked them to cancel my entire order and refund my payment. I'm not out anything (yet) but the time-use of my money (when paying with Paypal the funds are transferred immediately) but it sure is annoying. Caveat emptor.
Some of the Internet stores are starting to have real-time inventory posted for each product. This is very useful when ordering odd parts that may be in short supply.
I fought them for over a year for a refund on a returned locomotive. I filed a complaint with the BBB and the California Attorney Generals Office, wrote numerous emails and made numerous phone calls. Just about the time I was ready to give up, a final phone call to them resulted in them issuing a credit. It was almost like there had never been a problem. Go figure. ...Tom
An item reduced to clear but that has to be ordered in because they are out of stock, I would say that sounds odd. I try to stay clear of the big, faceless sellers like internet trains and stick with those that are more like the traditional LHS but on the internet, prices are as cheap, or cheaper and they'll bend over backwards to fix up any problems with your order.
Many times LHS and IHS reduce an item to move it while still making profit. It's not put on clearance because of stock levels it's to make sales. So when they sell out and demand is still good why not buy more to move units to make sales. Gotta remember the LHS is not in it just to be kind-hearted and make you feel warm and fuzzy when you buy something - they are in it for the MULAH.
About four times a year, Trainboard goes through a "Bad E-tailer of All Time" thread. A common justification for posting it here is that the E-tailer ignores emails and phone calls. This generates responses from others that defend the E-Tailer as always answering emails and phones. Which then generates further posts from others who feel they've been badly served. Which generates . . . As one admin, I don't know how to handle this any longer. We at Trainboard can't possibly judge the merits of any complaints about bad service, inventory practices, payments withdrawn or refunded . . . So what should I do? Should I sticky a "Complaints" thread at the top of this forum so we can get our rants off our chests?
This is a very touchy subject and I try to stay out of the bad etailer threads, but I have noticed this particular brand of business becoming annoyingly prevalant recently. It has really shown its ugly head on ebay as well. Many shops that appear to have many items of a really broad range or scarcity listed in auctions. You buy and pay for the items, only to have the "business" hold your money for a term of several weeks before issuing a refund. I agree with you that this is not right...sell what you have or tell us the process to get it up front! The customer will eventually figure out this business practice anyways. If you really think about it, that liquid cash flow coming in from static sales, if only temporarily would yield good interest in investments if enough of these transactions are made, also that money taken in could buy inventory of what is available from vendors so they could try to fill as many orders and not have any overhead. I believe it is shady, very shady to advertise something you don't actually have in posession without making the terms and conditions clear.
I have ordered from them four times so far. Every single time it has been a clearance/a great deal such as a few years back they had Atlas GP40 in perlman green for $40! Needless to say I bought more than a few - took a few weeks to show up, not too bad. I'd say it is about ~1.5 month every other time. Last order was 10/31/07.... I had it in my hot little hands on 1/19/08. My viewpoint is to use internettrains.com if they are having a good deal and you can wait..... and wait.... and wait. Nscalesupply/Featherrivertrains (visiting Chuck in person is an option too) for online and need it soonish... or LHS - Railroad Hobbies/Roseville, CA or Western Depot/Yuba City, CA.
Forum censorship Why do anything at all? If there's one thing these N scale Groups and Forums are good for, it's letting N scalers know what's going on. If certain e-tailers are providing poor service, poor pricing, etc, I'm happy to hear (read) about it. In the past two years, I've read about 20 threads about Internettrains.com. Only one of them was complimentary, and that was posted by an inexperienced newbie. I'm puzzled as to why internettrains.com is able to generate so much bad press. Who's ordering from them and why? His regular prices aren't competitive; not even close to: Feather River, Wig-Wag, BLW, TexNRails, N scale Supply, woo woo woo woo woo woo, Rio Grande (or whatever Wayne's calling his business- It used to be Rio Grande Model Railroad and Action Hobbies... After 4 changes in ownership, I don't think anyone knows what's going on with that d/b/a) Internettrains.com's "clearance" prices are nothing special. Very limited anount of items and even at "clearance" prices, they're still higher-priced than some of the fore mentioned e-tailers. If this web site wants to keep accepting his advertising dollars, fine! Take his money. If you feel he needs defending, let him do it himself by participating in these threads. Censorship is for people with something to hide. Allow us N scalers the freedom to read each others' experiences and opinions without fear of excommunication.
Personally I think its great that we can have this discussion about different e-tailers. The internet allows for a broader customer base. The e-tailers shouldn't be held any less accountable for their business practices than any store that you can walk into in your own city. Just like in your hometown, you can advise friends or aquaintences not to shop somewhere because you feel the service or pricing is bad. Likewise, in the global community that the internet allows for, we should be afforded the same opportunities to express our frustration or satisfaction with a business. LHS have their merits, however, mine ( a national chain) usually charges full MSRP. On my budget I can buy 20% more stuff from my preferred e-tailer. I've ordered one thing from internet trains. It was an Atlas SD35 which had been out of stock elsewhere. It did seem to take a long time to arrive (about four weeks). It made it just a few days before Christmas. Glad I ordered early.
How about a Consumer Affairs Board? This would be a place where people could check on fellow hobbyists experiences with retailers--mind you it could be good and bad comments. I've seen this used to good effect on another hobby board I frequent.
Here is my solution and it has worked flawlessly every single time. Make a list of all the items that you want from whoever. CALL THEM ON THE PHONE, and place your order. If they do not accept phones orders, then they do not get my business, period! I am the Information Systems Manager for a City and I have done major buying from the Internet for well over 10 years, Thousands of dollars per year and every single transaction besides eBay is completed with a phone call. You have to remember that a lot of web sites are like the Sunday paper adds. They only get updated on the weekends. The Internet stores are sometimes worse than postal mail, transactions will and do get lost. DonFG
I've shopped at Internet Trains several times, and I have had only one time where there was a delay. And even then, it wasn't too long (2 weeks). For the record, I'm not a newbie here, or at Web shopping. I've been in this hobby for over 35 years, and have been in hobby shops both brick-and-mortar and Internet-based. Matter of fact, my last order from Internet Trains (placed online Thursday last week) arrived yesterday- two new 50-foot boxcars, including a Nevada Northern car from MT. Both in excellent shape, and both my favorite price- cheap. Nobody here has mentioned censorship or excommunication. Most times when we get a thread starting with the topic "Such-and-such company stinks because (fill in gripe here)", it tends to deteriorate into a round of name-calling, followed by the thread being locked, plus the suppliers of the verbal gasoline being banned. It's a mess no forum wants. Also, maybe I've been off the Net for a while, but I haven't heard that much negative about Internet Trains. If there is, then the owner needs to defend his actions or close his doors. If not, then drop it & move on. Another fact of Net shopping: not every store is going to be stocked with every item, and sometimes the number of a certain item is exceeded by the number of orders. Also, EVERY SINGLE INTERNET TRAIN STORE has goofed up on a customer order. Repeat, EVERY SINGLE ONE. You name me one that hasn't, and I'll call you a liar, or naive. The true mark of the business lies in how the error is handled. Now, as I recall, Pete even suggested a complaint box. Doesn't sound like censorship to me, now does it?
OK, I've thought about this. I want to thank those who had constructive responses to my request for your input. I think I did not brandish even a hint of censorship nor, heavens, excommunication. But these types of threads often descend into untruths, wild exaggerations, and innuendo. This thread has started in that direction. It is a longstanding policy of Trainboard that we will not allow this type of thread, whether the vendor is an advertiser or not. In my research through our threads today, I see as many threads locked for non-advertisers as advertisers. So I'm locking this, for now. I will take up the subject with my fellow Trainboard admins, but this will take some time, as various admins (including me) have a busy travel schedule through September. Again, thank you all for your input. It gave me insight into this troublesome subject, and will help us all achieve a suitable avenue for these complaints in the future.
