The Learning Channel will carry a one hour prograham. Americas greatest train wrecks at 8:00 pm est. This Sunday. I have seen it before and it is worth while watching Some real nasty stuff. Sorry that I didn't put this on the forum yesterday. Art [ 06 January 2002: Message edited by: Art ]
Art, if you have seen it before, do you remember if it includes the wreck of the NYC Lake Shore Ltd in Little Falls, NY in 1940?
I just watched it, it was ok but I expected more accidents, but was inetesting. Especially Tom Armstrong's accidets in '92.
I just watched the show too.... pretty dull, in my opinion. It is always amazing that the media can take 4 isolated incidents and make them the "norm". I especially disliked the part about the numerous "dangerous chemical trains" and related info. Harold
I watched it too and it was rather biased and didn't show that there is lots of railroad trips that arrive safely and nothing happened. I would love to see more with how the engineers react to the stupidity of the public when they try bonehead moves to beat a train or walk on the tracks.
It is unfortunate how the railroads get only negative press. I have never seen a positive commercial on TV, only "late-breaking news stories about the derailment and chemical spill in _____". I have had (ignorant) people tell me that trains are the most dangerous forms of transportation! We see all these ads telling us to travel and see the country...they show ships, planes, and buses, but not a single bit of Amtrak. When America forsook the train in favor of the interstate and the automobile, we were then enslaved to the petroleum industry. We have reaped what we've sown, and that's the bad part of it all.
Sorry guys and girls. I thought this was the show they had on National Geographic several months ago. Which showed a hurendurous runaway wreck on Cajon Pass. And several other bad wrecks throuout the years. I guess that I took to much for granted and didn't enjoy it either. Maybe National Geographic will show there series on trains again it was teriffic as all of there prograhams. Art. [ 07 January 2002: Message edited by: Art ]
Heres a picture that i'm hosting and posting for Art... I'll let him tell the story. He knows it better then I do.. and besides its his picture....
This is what is left of the head unit on the Chicago Trailor Train. The crew of the Reding 96 spent the day in a bar and didn't pull in the siding. On impact the first trailor hit the unit and slid down the side doing the damage you see here. The young lady fireman was killed instantly and the rest of the crew busted up pretty bad. It has alwas bothered me why someone didn't jerk her out of the seat when a headon was inevitable. She would of gotten busted up but she would most likely of lived. It was a sad day for Cumberland. Wreck Little orleans Road Crossing WVA, Photo Cumberland Yard 1980. thanks John. Art [ 10 January 2002: Message edited by: Art ]
Art, Your welcome! Anytime you want to post some pictures and all let me know and e-mail them to me and all and I'll get them online for you, and post them. On the picture, I kinda thought that was Cumberland, but I wasn't exactly sure... My asumption was correct though....
Like doesn't those people know its more dangerous to fly now than being on a safe passenger train? Some people just don't see the light that before there was ever a jet liner there was a train in the beginning! Whats the world coming too?
Art, No actually the UP Big Boy was the heaviest and longest. It was the second to most powerfull, at HIGH SPEED! The C&O had a loco called an "Allegheny" Which was lighter and shorter but had a really HIGH horse power rating at LOW SPEED. If my memory serves me right the Big Boy had a boiler to produce 6000 horsepower, where the C&O's Allegheny had a boiler that produced 7500 horsepower and was capable of 8000 horse power. The Big Boy was made to run 70 MPH and higher and pull mile long trains in the west, where the Allegheny was made to run at 40 MPH with mile long trains up heavy grades and tight radius curves. Where the Big Boy was made to run on wider more gradual curves and not on steep grades. But for a side note, one thing to keep in mind though. The HP of these 2 locomotives were to run at 2 completely different speeds. And also under different conditions of terrain. The Allegheny was one for hauling tonage at slow lugging speeds, and sustain that speed and also capable of a fast sustained start up. The Allegheny was made to haul frieght up steep grades at sustained speeds and also could get a train moving and to speed faster then the Big Boy. All because of the raw horse power. The Big Boy was made to haul at 70 or higher MPH but took him longer to get the train in motion then the Allegheny did. But if you think about it, the grades in the east and the twisting and winding up mountains on tight curves, to the west and their grades and relatively gradual curves, the 2 locomotives were made for a specific needs and jobs. So they had to be very cost effient to their purpose. And for the 2 railroads that owned them. To many people in the hobby and in railroading and its understands try to do the impossible, they try to compare these 2 locomotives and in the real world and reality these 2 locomotives can not be compared in anyway shape or form! The Big Boy for instance, it was made for relatively level, and gradual curves of the west, for speeds of 70 plus MPH. The Allegheny was made for the steep grades of the "Allegheny" mountains, of ever twisting tight curves, for speeds of 40 MPH. As you see, 2 different terrains, 2 different purposes of need, and 2 different speed ratings for both. So to compare these 2 loco's is like comparing a Shay steam loco (geared) and a medium steam loco (rod). Made for 2 completely different jobs! The Allegheny was bought by the C&O and I believe Virginian. VRG called them "Blue Ridges" and was classed as "AG". C&O was the first buyer of the locomotive, and gave its official name of "Allegheny" for which the name sake of the mountains it worked on! This locomotive was outshoped by Lima. It had 67 inch drivers, and an extra large fire box, this was the reason for the 6 wheeled trailing truck. Its wheel configuration was "2-6-6-6". C&O's class was "H-8" The Big Boy was only bought by Union Pacific, in 1941, (anyone correct that year if its wrong). and one of UP's engine crew, chalked "Big Boy" on the smoke box front and the name stuck, It has been said that the Big Boy was almost called "Washach" for its name sake mountain. I believe thats how its spelled anyway ). Its wheel configuration was "4-8-8-4" I can't recall UP's class symbol for the Big Boy's. But it had 69 inch drivers, and weighed 540 ton! Heaviest steam locomotive in the world. The Big Boy was outshoped by ALCO, and as I've said I believe in 1941. [ 11 January 2002: Message edited by: 7600EM_1 ]
John, Trains Magazine had a nice article on the Allegheny sometime in the past year. I don't remember exactly, but I believe the article said that there was considerable confusion as to her actual total weight. Apparently Lima didn't have a scale configuration that could handle an extremely large loco of the Allegheny's size, so they had to weigh her in sections, a few wheels at a time. Because of this, the weighing process was performed many times, and over many weeks, and by many different Departments. Unfortunately, the calculated total weight results were widely different with each weighing. Therefore, Lima published the most conservative calculated result, i.e. the lowest weight, which was slightly less than the total weight published by ALCO for the Big Boy. Sadly, the weight that Lima published for the Allegheny was said to be the only result that was lower than Big Boy's published weight
John your correct, it was in 1941, Sept. 5th I believe that UP just recieved the first 1 (4000) of the 25 ordered. "Washach"? Good god if they called it other than "Big Boy", Big Boy's a good name for and it shall stick to it. As for the weight of the Big Boy (which was over 1,000,000 lbs) could be very well the heaviest engine that roamed the tracks. It's estimated to be about or over 600 tons, now thats a big beast!
Here UPBigBoy, Have a look throught the statisics here.... This ought to help you in the explanation of size, power, and legth.... Articulated Steam Locomotives Most Pulling Force (Articulated) Road Class Wheel Arrangement Tractive Effort N&W Jawn Henry C+C+C+C 180,000 Virginian X-A 2-8-8-8-4 166,300 (compound) 199,560 (simple) Virginian AE 2-10-10-2 147,200 (compound) 176,600 (simple) N&W Y6b 2-8-8-2 170,000 (simple expansion mode, with booster) Erie P-1 2-8-8-8-2 160,000 GN R-2 2-8-8-2 153,000 N&W Y6b 2-8-8-2 152,206 (simple expansion mode, before mid-1950 modifications) DM&IR M-4 2-8-8-4 140,000 UP 4-8-8-4 135,375 Most Powerful (Articulated) Road Class Wheel Arrangement Horsepower C&O H-8 2-6-6-6 7,500@40MPH N&W A 2-6-6-4 5,300@43MPH (DBHP) 6,800@38MPH (IHP) WM M-2 4-6-6-4 6,345@50MPH DM&IR M-4 2-8-8-4 6,250 SP AC-12 4-8-8-2 6,000@40MPH UP 4-8-8-4 6,200 (DBHP) 6,000@37MPH (CHP) C&O M-1 4-8-0-4-8-4 6,000 (turbine) 3,000 (DBHP) N&W Y6b 2-8-8-2 5,600@25MPH (simple expansion mode, with booster) DBHP: Drawbar Horsepower IHP: Indicated Horsepower at cylinders CHP: Calculated Horsepower Longest (Articulated) Road Class Wheel Arrangement Engine + Tender = Total N&W Jawn Henry C+C+C+C 111'-7" + 50'-0" = 161'-1" C&O M-1 4-8-0-4-8-4 106'-0" + 48'-0" = 154'-0" UP 4-8-8-4 85'-10" + 47'-0" = 132'-10" B&O EM-1 2-8-8-4 125'-3" DM&IR M-4 2-8-8-4 77'-5" + 47'-7" = 125'-0" C&O H-8 2-6-6-6 76'-8" + 47'-8" = 124'-4" SP AC-12 4-8-8-2 78'-11" + 44'-10" = 123'-8" Heaviest (Articulated) Road Class Wheel Arrangement On Drivers Engine Tender¤ Total C&O M-1 4-8-0-4-8-4 856,000 377,970 1,233,970 N&W Jawn Henry C+C+C+C 818,000 354,000 1,172,000 C&O H-8 2-6-6-6 471,000 778,000* 320,540 1,098,540 UP 2 4-8-8-4 545,200 772,250 436,500 1,208,750 NP Z-5 2-8-8-4 553,000 717,000 408,400 1,125,400 DM&IR M-4 2-8-8-4 564,974 699,700 438,335 1,138,035 SP AC-8,10,11,12 4-8-8-2 531,700 657,900 393,300 1,051,200 B&O EM-1 2-8-8-4 485,000 629,000 382,000 1,011,000 *NOTE: H-8 775,330 actual engine weight. 778,000 is usually found in books. * NOTE: Tender weights are for fully loaded tenders. The site address to visit for these statisics Wes Barris "Articulated Locomotives" [ 12 January 2002: Message edited by: 7600EM_1 ]
Ok John you made a good point, but still the Big Boy I think is the fastest articulated engine, with a speed of 80 mph. Whoa!
Not exactly, The Challenger was a speedy too.. and thinking of the Challenger, it was good for both, passenger and frieght! It was designed for only high speed frieght but once tested and all the reports of its preformance it was a good preformer for passenger services as well... The Challenger is probably the best steam loco made! It was at home doing both services and neither service would do harm to it. The reason that the Big Boy wasn't put into passenger service was the fact of the moutain it was made to conquer and well it had double engine beds of 8 which made it for freight for traction purposes and its weight. On its name, YES Union Pacific was going to name it "Washach" being that was the name of the mountain UP designed the Big Boy for, then a UP trainman chalked "Big Boy" on the smoke box and ever since the name stuck... And thats what its known for today.... But that time in history could have ended up just what it was proposed to be. The Big Boy could have been called a "Washach" and nic named "Big Boy" such as the B&O's 2-10-2's, they were rightly named "Santa Fe's" and the B&O nic named them "Big Sixes" For obvious reasons, for one, they were "Big" and for 2 the cab number always began with "6" So its almost the same as UP and the Big Boys. And while on the subject, UP named the "Challenger" as well....
