I'm going to be straight forward here. How well are the newer genesis motors? Do they hold up well under operation speeds and do they run smoothly during slower scale speeds? My cousin wanted to know what I wanted for christmas and I want to make sure that Athearn's Genesis units will hold up on me and not break down 3 months later due to motor failure (as I've experienced with some second hand R-T-R Athearn locomotives in the past).
I'm going to be staight forward also: Athearn Genesis F units are the BEST F shell in HO bar none. If you care about appearance, then you will LOVE Athearn Genesis F units, if that matters to you. If you ONLY care about motors and looks are secondary, go for Stewart/Bowser, they tend to have the best most reliable motors - at least the Stewarts did - they were made by KATO. Thats not to say Athearn Genesis can't run just as smooth, but Athearn historically has had some QAQC problems so you have the odd lemon that occurs a little more often than should be. But Genesis F unit shells are drop dead gorgeous so I'd still say get one and if it doesn't run well exchange it. Generally Genesis are Athearns premium line - so I haven't heard that they break down after a few months. You mentioned Athearn RTR - they have the same old "gold" open fame motor that sometimes runs smooth, sometimes is a coffee grinder but usually those are like tanks. I don't think your experience of them breaking down is the norm. Here is my Athearn Genesis D&RGW F9m (rebuilt from an F3A)
Yeah I was only concerned with the motors because visually the Genesis Shells already cleared my expectations. I wanted to make sure the motors lived up to that as well. That's really all I wanted to know, Thanks so much for the input.
I added a photo of one of mine above. If Genesis F shells don't clear your expectations, nothing will. For F units here is the short list: Athearn Genesis Walthers Proto 2000 Intermountain Regal Broadway Ltd Stewart Bowser Proto 10000 (F3 only) Bachman Plus Athearn "Globe" RTR The top 5 should all have smooth good motors, but a I've heard of the occasional issue with Genesis but most report smooth runners. They are Athearns premium line - but Athearn has always been dogged a bit by some quality control issues. The shell from Genesis is widely agreed to have the best representation of the complex nose contours out of all the HO models.
Your photo isn't showing. And I agree about the nose contours. Rapido is the only other company to have nailed the F-Unit nose. Although it does help that Jason is a nutcase when it comes to getting the sizing correct. Athearn certainly nailed it. And considering the wide varieties of F-Units that Burlington Northern inherited, I'd say Athearn did a great job to represent Nothern Pacific and Great Northern units in the Cascade Green Paint. I started a modeling project on a pair of Stewart units (Pre-Bowser Era, but DCC Board Equipped) and decided that most of the work is beyond my skill range, for now. Athearn certainly drew me in. Is the decoder on the DCC/Sound units a Tsunami Decoder or does Athearn use their own model? I notice that a lot of companies are now using the Tsunami Decoders these days.
Athearn Genesis is very good. In general, Athearn has considerably improved running characteristics on most of its line. I have a pair of relatively recent non-Genesis F7s that run very smooth - though nothing like my Katos or Intermountains (I have an Intermountain FP9 that I have to look at to confirm it's moving!). I was extremely surprised - all my other Athearns (older models) growl like cranky German Shepherds, LOL. I'd say it's a good choice.
Photo showed for me fine at home last night. At work photobucket shows as a red X, but thats because photobucket is blocked at work for me. I'll check the picture when I get home to make sure it is displaying as it was last night. You mentioned Rapido, but isn't Rapido a Canadian style FP7A which for the most part isn't the same as most F units in the US? I'd say Rapdio is out of the picture and off the menu for most US modelers unless they are modeling a Canadian prototype. Yes, Stewart did a nice job on their F units and despite the fact that they are late 1980's tooling, they still look very decent, and run great. As for Tsunami, you'll have to check on the Genesis unit. Athearn used the inferior MRC sound boards for many years, and only switched to Tsunami about 2-3 years ago, so you'll need to check on when the Genesis F you are interested was manufactured and what sound board it came with. I imagine most if not all of the FP7A have Tsunami as they are all very recent on the market. The "modernized" F units may have Tusnami but they were hitting the market about the time Athearn announced the change so better check to be safe.
Yeah Rapido's is a Canadian Prototype, but again, the Nose Countours were somewhat never done right from anyone who attempted to do it before them. And the photo's working now. Absolutely gorgeous unit.
I have heard Rapdio did a very good job on their F unit. The Canadian set looks like it will be a real GEM too, a boon to Canadian modelers! For those of us modeling US diesels, the application will be limited as not very many came south of the border, but a few of the surviving F units have ended up in the US in the past 10-15 years. Thanks for the confirmation since I can't check at work - photobucket is blocked. Here is what I currently own but no layout right now to run them: Athearn Genesis: -F3ABBA set (D&RGW single stripe #5541-5544 - mid/late phase F3's with F3 roof details and chicken wire upper grills, but F7 style louvers and porholes - unique to D&RGW as far as I know) -F3A (wreck rebuilt to an F9m D&RGW single stripe #5531) -F9ABBBA set (D&RGW single stripe #5771, 5762, 5763 5773, 5774) -F7A (D&RGW single stripe - late phase #5764 with 1960's details) -FP7A (WP passenger) Stewart/KATO -3 F7AB sets (phase II D&RGW 4-stripe paint) -2 F7AB sets (phase I D&RGW 4-stripe paint) -F9AB sets (single stripe) -F3ABB set (WP passenger) Walthers Proto 2000 -F7ABBA set (D&RGW single stripe paint)
I have a Genesis UP F7 and yes I agree, the shell is beautiful. I've had it for several years with no motor issues, but I have to say it's not been run for hours on end either. It runs quiet and smooth. Also agree with the spotty quality of the Athearn RTR's. I have some that are smooth, excellent runners - and a couple that have been problematic, although it only showed up when they were run heavily at a train show. On the OTHER hand, they are pretty straightforward in construction and relatively easy to work on. I'd have no worries buying any Genesis unit.
Well based off of all the feedback here, I grabbed both F7AB set numbers, DC, and handed them to my cousin and said "Either set." Being that I've done a lot of research on the final years of BN's Cab units as helper units (And yes I know they were F9's IRL) up around Marias Pass, and being that that is the focus of my layout build, I'm going to go ahead and build a set of ABBA Helper units. And Athearn hasn't really given me a reason to not go after the Genesis Units. Many thanks to all who provided feedback. I promise i'll put photos up post Christmas if I can find my bloody digital camera. If I have to use my blackberry's camera, I will.
I see Athearn did produce Genesis F9AB's in BN paint, but they are long out (5 years). If you keep an eye on Fleabay, or train shows you might score them if F9's are what you need. BTW, I remember reading about the BN F9's in one of my magazines. BN was one of the last big RR's to use F units in regular service IIRC. D&RGW of course ran theirs on the Rio Grande Zephyr unitl 1983 and on more year on the balast train.
BN was forced to stop the Covered Wagon drive at the end of the 70s when it became apparrent they were running short on motive power and finances for new units. Any F Unit with a 567C Prime Mover (1 F3, FP7, All F9's and a couple F7's) were saved for trade-in credits to EMD. Anything not containing the 567C was scrapped. Although BN 666 eventually wrecked herself and yes, she was a cursed unit. Many of the F's survived as helper units at Whitefish, MT. But the split of the Covered wagon fleet was unique. Half were sent to the Pacific Northwest because the mild winters were easier on the units. The other half went to Minneapolis/St Paul because BN also believed that the harsh winters were survivable with the F Units as they were very cozy in those tempatures. It just proved the versatility of the F's. Eventually, as we all know, BN-1, BN-2, and BN-3 would be the last Covered wagons to resign from service, living out the days into the BNSF Merger. Yeah BN went down WITH the covered wagons. Very fitting in my opinion. I looked at the F9's but the F7's are the ones grabbing my attention.
Yes, I recall reading some articles about the BN a few years ago, and their last days of using F units. Interesting stuff. BN did run F9's. F9's were bing manufactured at the time hood units were taking over in popularity for road diesels and sales for F units were dying off in the mid 1950's when the F9's were in the catelog at EMD. That being the case, there weren't very many F9 units built in comparison to F7's. The D&RGW (from memory) 78 F7's but only 6 F9's (2 F9A's and 4 F9B's). My guess is the BN was similar in ratio. So F7's would make sense to have more of or a larger interest. BTW the cool thing about the Geneis F's from Athearn is that the shells have components that let Athearn build many combination of phases. As happens, many RR's rebuilt or EMD rebuilt F units due to wrecks or rebuilding programs so that F units didn't fall strictly into visual phase categories as most HO models represent. For example Stewart did manufacture shells in popular phases (F3 phase 1-IV, F7 phase I and II, and one phase of F9). The D&RGW had 3 sets of ABBA F3's purchased mainly for passenger service, but in the early 1950's they lost their phase I 3 porthole sides and where modified to have semi F7 looking sides (F3 chicken wire upper air grills, but F7 style louvers and 2 portholes). Athearn offered this modified version in HO, which I bought a set of ABBA for the 1960's version. In fact the following YouTube video shows the same engine set I have pulling the California Zephyr (which I also have), to give you an idea what the D&RGW F3's "modified" look like from Athearn Genesis. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yE9_CnjV8MA&feature=fvsr Athearn Genesis also has done many other interesting phase variations. The one I showed a photo earlier in this topic is an F9m, which started life as a F3A but was wrecked, and sent back to EMD for rebuilding - it returned with F9A side panels but kept the F3 roof details. The D&RGW had 2 diesels that were rebuilt with F9 sides, probably by EMD in the mid-1950 or later when F9's were the version being manufactured, so that is what they had to use for rebuilding. The second F incidently was an F7, which got F9 sides, but the roof had F7 fans and 36-inch dynamic break fan. That F7 rebuild pulled the California Zephyr in the late 1960's, along with F9's and F7 phase II's. Cheers.
