Atlas N-501 Trackplan

poppy2201 Jan 5, 2008

  1. warriorpilot

    warriorpilot New Member

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    Hey Poppy. This is rather unrelated but, are you using the Atlas Right Track software, and if so, how are you creating the screen shots to upload? I've been trying to figure this thing out for some time now so I can post the track plan for the hollow core door layout I have under construction.
     
  2. ppuinn

    ppuinn Staff Member

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    Poppy:
    If you are comfortable eliminating the interchange on the right, then I'd like to revisit the idea of a double-ended arrival-departure track because I believe it will yield a considerable improvement in ease of operations (and ultimately in satisfaction with your track plan).

    Suppose you tie the left end of the A-D track in at 9:00 on the oval with a left hand turnout (TO1) (curved track to the main and straight track to the A-D track).

    At the right end of the oval, at about 4:30, you position a right hand turnout (TO2) (sort of mirroring TO1's curved portion of the turnout to the main and straight track into the yard).

    The straight portion of TO2 connects to the curved portion of a left hand turnout TO3. The straight portion of TO3 sort of aims toward the upper right corner of the layout and crosses the space formerly occupied by the interchange track. This track will provide a yard lead. The curved portion of TO3 goes to the main.

    TO4 is a right hand turnout that ties into the base of TO3 with the straight track of TO4 pointing toward the yard and the curved portion going immediately into the straight part of the A-D track as it runs parallel with the main.

    TO5 is a right hand turnout that forms the 2 yard tracks that run parallel to the main and A-D tracks (and curve away from the front edge of the layout to stay parallel with the A-D track as it curves to tie into the main at 9:00).

    The engine facility could stay where it is, but that shortens space to use on your front/bottom yard track...so you may want to consider putting the engine facility along the yard lead between the main and the yard lead accessed by a left hand turnout TO6. That way, a switcher classifying cars on the 2 yard tracks or building or breaking down a train on the A-D track, could run from the yard tracks through the straight portions of TO4, TO3, and TO6. To fit the yard lead and engine facility into the same space as the interchange track formerly occupied, you may need to put a curved piece of track between TO3 and TO6, but you could still run the yard lead through the straight portions of all the turnouts. There would be no S-curves through turnouts with this arrangement which will dramatically reduce the chance of frustrating unreliability during any backing motions in the yard will classifying cars.

    Having a double ended A-D track will let you pull out of the yard or A-D track going counter-clockwise around the layout, and at the conclusion of your run, pull straight into the A-D track without needing to back into your yard. The locos would be at the correct end of the train to move directly to the engine facility without much fuss.
     
  3. ppuinn

    ppuinn Staff Member

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    I like how you've expanded the sidings at ADM and Red Wing. If you will have access to the top of the layout, the scenic divider and Sunrise siding will be very nice additions too.

    Depending on how much you are willing to crowd things, it might be possible to add a short interchange track outside the oval running straight to the left edge of the layout from a left hand turnout off the main just to the left of the Sunrise siding. This would only be accessible to counter-clockwise running trains if a run-around move was performed using the Sunrise siding. Of course, if you are running clockwise (which the double-ended A-D track will easily permit), then you could serve the interchange without needing a run-around movement. (Unfortunately, the interchange and Sunrise would be the only sidings that could be conveniently served unless you wanted to split your train for an awkward run-around movement at ADM.)

    Having 2 tracks at ADM and RWM will give you an interesting operating option: it would be possible to use the track closest to the structures as a loading/unloading track, and the farther track as a holding track. The roadswitcher's job is to pull the loads/empties from the loading/unloading track, move cars from the holding track onto the loading/unloading track, and set out cars from the train onto the holding track. This increases the total number of moves you must perform at any one industry...which, for me anyhow...makes operating a particular industry more interesting (and challenging if you have to pull loaded cars off the end of the loading track but leave an empty one that hadn't been loaded yet, but was closer to the turnout <mischievous grin>).
     
  4. ppuinn

    ppuinn Staff Member

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    Some thoughts on right-side running on a double oval plan of this size...
    I personally prefer the idea of right-side running when two tracks run so close together, but on a door-sized layout, you will travel over most of the mainline to get to the crossovers necessary to get the train on the correct side. Additionally, you will limit which industries you can serve unless you add even more crossovers or only serve 1 or 2 of the 3 industries when traveling one direction...which means increasing the sense of "busy-ness" or crowding in the track plan with more crossovers while also reducing the amount of interesting action any one train can perform.

    <Plink, Plink> My $0.02: eliminate the crossovers between the two loops and make the plan a folded loop (twice around the layout to cover 1 grand loop). The yard and A-D track would be on the outside loop but ADM would only be accessible from the inside loop. In the upper right hand of the loops, the outside and inside loops would cross at a diamond. All other sidings would remain as they are presently positioned with minor adjustments to make the twice around loop. From the yard, trains would go on the outside loop and cross to the inside at the diamond, serve RWM, serve ADM, cross the diamond to the outside to serve Sunrise (and maybe an upper left corner interchange by a run-around movement) and then proceed on around to the yard.

    To make the run seem longer, you could make multiple circles around the loops and serve Sunrise first by picking up any/all cars but not setting any out, travel over the entire loop x number of times, then serve ADM, travel x more loops and serve RWM, travel some more loops and serve the interchange with a run-around through the empty Sunrise siding, travel some more loops and set out cars at Sunrise. Loop a few more times for good luck and pull into the A-D track.

    Lots of action on a door-sized layout.

    To heighten the sense of separation between the 2 tracks (which will still be relatively close to each other), some modelers put small trees and ditches or walls between the two tracks to play down the appearance of being double track. They will lay the tracks at slight angles to each other whereever possible instead of parallel, and will separate the tracks vertically by up to a half inch. (If you decide to use this method for this layout, don't overdo the difference in elevation because you will be stopping your train everywhere on the layout to serve the 3 industries and the cars left on the main while switching the sidings will roll downhill if there is any grade at all.)
     
  5. poppy2201

    poppy2201 TrainBoard Member

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    I do use Atlas RTS. Once you have your plan done using RTS, click on File, Save as and then in the dialog box select .bmp file type instead of .ral. I then use my photo editing software to resize the plan, fill in areas with color, add text etc. I then save that file as a .jpg file to upload to Railimages and my web site. Hope that helps.

    ppuin: Again, great insight and ideas. I will take some time and digest this and see how I can incorporate any of these and then post later. Thanks again.
     
  6. poppy2201

    poppy2201 TrainBoard Member

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    ppuin: I have played around with your ideas. I am able to get the left hand side for the A-D to work well but am having trouble getting everything on the right side to fit or align within the confines of the space allowed. That doesn't mean I have given up on it plus I am revisiting your idea of the diamond crossing in the upper right and eliminating the crossovers and going with the folded loop but I am not sure of how to do that and what degree of crossing to use. I should have time this weekend to work some more on the plan but for now here is what I have with Revision 7:

    [​IMG]

    Any thoughts?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 11, 2008
  7. poppy2201

    poppy2201 TrainBoard Member

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    Revision 8

    ppuin: Here is revision 8 which is a far cry from what started out as Atlas' N-501 track plan. I hope I translated what you were suggesting. In order to do this I had to use Atlas Code 80 with standard turnouts and I don't really have a problem with that. The radii may be a little tighter than with Code 55 but I won't be running anything larger than 4-axle. The only problem now is that I just can't seem to fit the 2-stall engine house in and make things look right but that is no big deal for now.

    [​IMG]

    Will await for any comments or suggestions.
     
  8. Mark Smith

    Mark Smith TrainBoard Member

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    The curved track that leads into your bottom yard track looks like it could be replaced with a LH switch and you could put the engine house tracks off to the right in the open area.
     
  9. poppy2201

    poppy2201 TrainBoard Member

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    Thanks Mark. I couldn't see the forest for the trees. I guess I was getting tired plugging away at this project.

    I have two revisions of the plan and would appreciate any comments.

    Revision 8

    [​IMG]

    Revision 9

    [​IMG]

    Thanks again everyone.
     
  10. ppuinn

    ppuinn Staff Member

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    Poppy:
    I like your plan with the crossover. I played around with trying to eliminate all the S-curves but couldn't make it work with Sunrise centrally located so I went with this:
    [​IMG]
    The space between the Sunrise runaround and the inner loop track with the RWM siding is not as large as it seems in my drawing...from the 15 degree crossing to the RWM turnout is a gentle S that moves the track over about an inch and a half in a little over a foot.

    Atlas standard turnouts (#2750 and #2751) have a 19 inch radius and complete a 15 degree arc. In a yard ladder made with these turnouts, there is about 1.25 inches between track centers. If you use # 5s or #7s your angles may be different and may result in different lengths of sidings or a very slightly different distance between track centerlines in a ladder, but I think the plan can be tweaked to work with the other turnouts without too much hassle.
     
  11. poppy2201

    poppy2201 TrainBoard Member

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    Dave: Thanks. I will look it over and see what I can do. I am seriously considering eliminating Sunrise since it is such a long structure and opting for something that might fit into the scheme of things better.
     
  12. David R

    David R TrainBoard Member

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    This thread is great, its really interesting watching the plan develop. I like it more and more with each revision!

    :)
     
  13. Zandoz

    Zandoz TrainBoard Member

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    I keep looking at versions 8 & 9 and wanting to cherry pick features...I like the longer runaround at Sunrise, the longer yard tracks from v8...but the longer main run of the twice around design and the more direct and less s-curves on the engine house sidings of v9.

    I think the yard coming off the curve and the simpler engine house approaches could be worked into v9 without too much trouble. The longer run-around being more difficult to adapt. The only solution for that I can come up with would be to move the crossing from the upper right to the lower left to reclaim the run-around length.

    I was looking at a website the other day that had pictures of Kansas grain elevators, and I was surprised to see how many were located on double ended sidings and on complete loops. Would swapping the location of Sunrise and the elevator work? That would put Sunrise on a longer siding.

    I also keep coming back to the idea of swapping the right hand turnout before Red Wing, for a left hand...then turning Red Wing around so that it is between the sidings and the scenic divider. This would eliminate working around Red Wing for uncoupling.
     
  14. poppy2201

    poppy2201 TrainBoard Member

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    Revision 10

    Okay, here's Revision 10 and I'm calling it quits for the night. Input welcome!

    [​IMG]
     
  15. Mark Smith

    Mark Smith TrainBoard Member

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    I prefer much that is in version 8. One thing you have eliminated along the way is a way to get from the inside to the outside track in one direction. You can into it but not back out without backing (and visa versa). At one time you put in a second set of cross-overs that took care of that issue.

    Version 9 is a single track twice around, version 8 is a two track once around. Do you have a preference?
     
  16. friscobob

    friscobob Staff Member

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    Between plans 8 and 10, I like 8 better. My opinion, anyway.......
     
  17. poppy2201

    poppy2201 TrainBoard Member

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    Thanks guys. I like Plan 8 and 10, so how about a compromise with Plan 11?

    [​IMG]
     
  18. poppy2201

    poppy2201 TrainBoard Member

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    Oops, I think I see a flaw in Plan 11 but I have to leave for work. Will look at it again tonight when I get home.
     
  19. Triplex

    Triplex TrainBoard Member

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    I see a flaw: it's a single-track twice-around - but with a crossover between the laps that doesn't serve a purpose I can see.
     
  20. poppy2201

    poppy2201 TrainBoard Member

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    Yep, that's it. I'm reworking things now. I decided I like Revision 8 but I'm trying to get things to fit using my existing Code 55 and turnouts rather than buying all new Code 80. Got some tweaking to do.
     

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