ATSF ATSF Zebras: White or Silver?

OK,
I have now seen lots of shots of the ATSF zebra scheme, and ALL of them look like white stripes to me. I have read that the stripes were chrome silver? Is the chrome paint later than the late 50's?? Happy Railroading!!
John

 

I never paid much attention either until I started really looking at the photos. In some the stripes look really white, and in others they definately look silver. The only thing I can figure is that the paint scheme changed over time, but from white to silver or silver to white?? Happy Modeling!!
John

 

Here are some emails that came through on the SantaFe email list yesterday:

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>
Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 01:19:02 -0500
From: Buttguster@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Zebra Stripes white or silver.

.....I have hear lots of guys over the years talk about the stripes being white and I have seen some such myself. Those I have seen with white stripes were all generally on the Eastern lines and save for mainly the FM switchers my sightings were all fairly early in the zebra era. However, I have santa fe zebra diesel painting diagrams that specify aluminum for stripes and lettering ( ditto some steam locomotive tender painting diagrams). I also once had an ATSF RSD5 badge plate that was definitely silver under the many layers of blue and yellow.
......My take on all this disagreement is that perhaps a number of initial deliveries of units that came from the manufacturer originally in zebra had white stripes. Upon later repaints, as aluminum had been standardized upon by ATSF by then (perhps), extant units when shopped were repainted with aluminum in MOST cases and new locomotives were delivered with aluminum
stripes.
......Some units that were specifically local to Argentine and nearby points, such as the FM units may have been repainted in white stripes when shopped just to use up the supply of white paint. As they didn't mingle much with other locomotive types and as they didn't travel very far afield, they kept white to use up paint supplies.
......I dunno, but that is my guess because both zebra diesels and steam locomotives were painted in BOTH white and Aluminim.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>
Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 16:45:30 -0500
From: Buttguster@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Silver vs. White

......I think we all are agreeing that there were both aluminum stripes and white stripes and that HO decals are available for either modeler preference. During Zebra Stripe days, on the prototype locomotives, I guess that nearly all of the GP7 were maintained and painted at Cleburne while the GP9 and the Alligators and SD 24s were maintained at Berdoo and Barstow....painted at Berdoo. Most of the RSD4/5 and DL600B (?) were maintined, and painted, at Albuquerque. These shops also had their share of BLW and AlCo and EMC/EMD switch engines to maintain, and paint, also.
.....The FM units -- I guess because of spare parts inventory location, lack of MU ability with locomoitves of other make (I've never see a 3000 FM mu-ed with a geep), ..... whatever, were nearly all kept on the lines generally east of Emporia (Strong City) after break-in. They were maintained at Argentine, perhaps Ft. Madison at that early date, and Corwith or 21st
Street. The FM were quite likely delivered in white stripes and remained that way and were all painted in one or two eastern locations. The other shops standardized on Aluminum paint early.
......This discussion has gone on for years with the steam locomotive lettering. Personally, I believe the CA shops used white paint for lettering (the sure used a different treatment for stacks and boiler fronts than the rest of the system). They even painted gray boiler jackets back in
the twenties when the rest of the system did not. I also believe the rest of the shops....AQ, TS, CY, etc., used aluminum lettering on steam. Certainly, painting diagrams bear out that aluminum (this includes diesel painting diagrams I have) was ATSF standard at SOME shops at SOME time. Likewise, we have all seen zebra diesels with obviously aluminum numbers and white stripes....not many, but some. Mostly Eastern lines power.
......Back in Zebra days, there were at least two early FM switchers leased to HB&T and the FM roadswitchers...some of them, broke in on the Gulf Lines in their original 2800 series numbers.....but I don't remember noticing whether striping was aluminum or white.
......Jeez....one really doesn't have anything useful to do to write sometihng this long about aluminum vs. white stripes.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>
Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 21:28:52 -0600
From: Stephen & Cinthia Priest <spriest@KC.RR.COM>
Subject: Re: Silver vs. White


The FM switchers had their white chevrons added by company personnel at Corwith. These switchers were originally delivered without the chevrons and only the silver body stripe and silver number. In an attempt to make the units more visible, the chevrons were added.

Stephen M. Priest
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm sure there were more today. I'll check when I get the digest tomorrow.

Dwight

 

I remember seeing a lashup one night where the lead engine's stripes were very bright reflective paint in the head lights, yet the engine behind did not reflect my lights. The reflective paint looks white in the daylight, while silver paint does not reflect light at night nearly as brightly.

Could this be a safety measure for night safety?

 

Dwight,
I get the same list, and it was what got me wondering. Those guys have gone back and forth on it for nearly a month!! Just thought there might be a fresh perspective here on the board!!

Watash,
I think that is a very good possibility and one I had not thought of!! Happy Modeling!!
John

 

I've found quite a few color photos of these units in many of the Santa Fe books & publications out there, and the Santa Fe Zebras are black with silver stripes. If you're a modeler and plan to model the Zebras in HO scale, Microscale decals #87-248 are available, and #60-248 are available for N scale.

Thanx 4 Listenin'....Q

 

After further review, I made a mistake...I checked a few more photos after I posted my original post and found that Santa Fe DID have zebras in WHITE STRIPES also. So the answer to the original post is "yes, they had both".

Thanx 4 Listenin...Let the QTRAINS roll...Q

 

Thanks for the update on the stripes Qtrain !! I wish there were ssome way of figuring out which came first though. Happy Modeling!!
John

 

John,

This is from the first email I quoted above. It should answer your question:

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>
.....My take on all this disagreement is that perhaps a number of initial deliveries of units that came from the manufacturer originally in zebra had white stripes. Upon later repaints, as aluminum had been standardized upon by ATSF by then (perhps), extant units when shopped were repainted with aluminum in MOST cases and new locomotives were delivered with aluminum stripes.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm not sure when this change occured, but I think it was in 1950. I just noticed in Santa Fe's Early Diesel Daze (a book that I HIGHLY recommend, btw) a painting diagram for the 2207 class VO-1000. It's dated July 2?, 1950 and specifies aluminum (Dupont Duco 254-3935, if anybody is interested) for the striping, numerals and letters. I would guess that this is when the change was officially made from white to aluminum (for these locos at least).

Dwight

[ 22 February 2001: Message edited by: Dwightman ]

 

Thanks Dwight...just what I was looking for!! Happy Modeling!!
John

 

According to the current Diesel Era ATSF Alco Switcher Article, there were both Zebras in Silver and White Stripes.

My question is, what color were the stripes on the 6 Alco S4 Switchers, owned by the Illinois Northern? I can't tell what color they are from the 2 pictures of Illinois Northern S4s I have.

I just picked up a Atlas Zebra S4, and it looks like a easy conversion to make it Illinois Northern #34. If the Stripes were white, I will keep the S4 ATSF. My time period is 1966 and I want to get this right.

[ 20. December 2004, 17:32: Message edited by: R P Smith ]