Should 3 accurail box cars and 11 accurail 2 bay hoppers stop a 2-8-0 from going up a 2.5 percent grade? All cars use the weight that came with them. I am wanting to go steam with this new R.R. but thought these engines should pull more than that.
Hey There! Great Question! Sorry to see you're having so much trouble! Normally, I would say NO! But you didn't say if there were: 1. loads in the hopper? 2. Are you using stock couplers and trucks? 3. Are there any curves in your grade? 4. Not to impune you, but are you sure you are truly at 2.5% ? Questions 1 & 2 will affect the weight collectively. Question 3 will reduce traction, and increase drag, thus causing the slippage. Is this a Spectrum 2-8-0, or one of the earlier Plus, or standard line? I have seen Spectrum 2-8-0's haul 25 cars easily without wheel slip. Can you offer any more info? Hope I can help! God Bless! Randy SLSFFRISOKID
The engine is a spectrum 2-8-0 The hoppers are empty, The couplers are a mix of kaydee and accumate, and the wheels are stock. The grade is 3/8 inch every 16 inches, it looks smooth and consistant. The is a 22inch radius curve at the bottom the grade begins in the last quarter of that curve. There is a slight s curve up the grade but I could only quess the radius of it. [This message has been edited by Kraydune (edited 16 December 2000).]
The answer to your question is 'yes' because it does. You are pulling 14 cars up a grade higher than 2.5%. The curve at the bottom adds to the grade as does the S curve. You may be pushing 3%. Now that doesn't seem much, but steamers are an odd bunch when it comes to pulling on grade. In many cases the prototye would only run 15 to 25 cars. Don't have any suggestions except to add some weight to the loco if you can and be sure that the loco's mechanism is free without binds. Roger
thanks for info I guess I will have to go with diesel or bigger steam or find a way to lower the grade.
Hey Kray! I hope that what I had to say didn't upset you or take you away from running steam! Because we don't have the luxury of truly running scale grades, sometimes we get pinched in our layout designs. It is NOT uncommon at all to have curves on a grade, either descending or ascending. The Peninsula Division of the C&O where I was a conductor on, has just what you have. Leaving Fulton Yard, heading east, you go through whinding curves, then through an " s " and up a very long steep grade of 2.2%. DO NOT BE DISCOURAGED! But look at what it can open up to you! 1. Doubling the hill! This was quite frequent in steam days, along with 1st and 2nd generation diesel days! 2. How about helper or pusher service! Man, that kinda action opens up new layout possibilities! 3. Add more trains. Many roads ran what are called dailies. Manifest train M121601, 02, 03, etc. Broken down it reads: M ( Manifest ) 1216 ( Date of Train ) 01, 02, 03, etc...( train # ). I've learned not only in this hobby, but in life, if you look only at the negative, or what apparently limits you, that is as far as you will get. Just as the negative is strong, the positive in every situation is stronger! I hope this helps! Keep the steam rolling! God Bless! Randy SLSFFRISCOKID
My problem with steam is the engines themselves I have 1 spectrum 2-8-0 that runs fair it has alittle lunge at slow speed but not too bad. I have one spectrum 4-8-2 that is awfull it needs to go back to bachmann before it can be used. I am thinking of trying the athearn mikes out and see how they preform. I really like this board it seems that I can finally get some help with my questions and maybe as I learn help others.
Nice thread. I have posted: http://www.nyandw.com/trainlength.htm This is about using an Alco 1000 and the effect of grades/cars/speed from the Alco Engineer manual. It provides a "guide" (maybe) to the fact that the 2-8-0 ( a circa 1900 engine or so, I believe) should be pulling a consist of 8-15 cars on grade, perfect for model layouts. One of the guys said to doublehead them. Perfect excuse to buy another. <G> Steve ------------------
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> My problem with steam is the engines themselves I have 1 spectrum 2-8-0 that runs fair it has alittle lunge at slow speed but not too bad. I have one spectrum 4-8-2 that is awfull it needs to go back to bachmann before it can be used. I am thinking of trying the athearn mikes out and see how they preform. I really like this board it seems that I can finally get some help with my questions and maybe as I learn help others. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Hey Kray! Don't let that stop you from running steam. Infact, unless that Bachmann's 2-8-0 lunging is stalling the train, constantly derailing, or causing a short, ENJOY IT! Yes, you read right...ENJOY IT! WHY DO I SAY THAT? Because every steam engine HAS HER own personality. You see, in real life, some steamers were really frisky! They responded instantly to the touch of the Johnson Bar. Some so much, they felt like they were gonna leap right off the rail. Others, were slow to react, taking off smoothly, or with a sudden jerk. Some steamers slipped ( regardless of sand ) while the others of the same wheel class didn't. A newer engine right out of the shops would react differently, than one with 25 years on her drivers. No steamer ever was like another...No whistle, no bell, no blow off, no valve works, NAH DAH, NUTTIN'! That's why the relationship between the Hogger and his Banjo Picker, and the Hog was so special. Because the threesom molded into one! The crew became a part of the engine, as the engine became a part of the crew! I agree your Spectrum 4-8-2 should go back. No excuse for it not running! The comfort level of the imperfections in running are strictly up to you. Remember what I said above? But here is another overlooked part of our hobby. If an engine runs herky jerky a little, or if it slipps here and there, or it wobbles a little, without causing headaches, accept it gleefully. This can only add to the realism! Trust me when I say this, NO ENGINEER WHO EVER RODE THE RAILS WILL SAY THEIR ENGINE WAS PERFECT! My suggestions on helper service was not designed to get you to unload your money, but to broaden your operations. Doubling a hill is very realistic, and can add time into a run! Just in case you don't know what doubling is... The train will not make the grade without pushers. No pushers are available. The conductor will make a cut in his train, leaving one half behind, and taking the other up the hill. To do this there must be a siding, where you can either shove the cut you brought up into, or run around that cut with the engine. After securing the train at the top of the grade you go down the hill again, and get the other half, or repeat the process until your train is over the hill. When you've doubled the hill, couple your train together again, and off you go. On a small layout, this would be tough to do, but with that 20x16 monster you have, YAHOO! What action! Take into consideration this: I make my own engines from kits, geared with NWSL gearboxes and motors. They are all metal and weigh much more than the Spectrums and Proto/Athearns. Even with precise equipment NWSL makes, AND the loving caring time I take to make 'em, there are still inperfections. I still have engines that jerk, or wobble, or hickup, or spin a little before starting off ( NO ITS NOT A HEAVY THROTTLE HAND ). They add character, and don't disrupt the flow of operations! Learn to accept imperfect, just like the real roads have to. Then your railroad will be truer to life! I tell ya, workin' on the big ones, sure sets a new light to workin' on the small ones! I cannot believe how much I, and apparently the hobby, takes for granite! ...But that is just some of my feelings...We all learn from one another! Oh, well...all in the eye of the trainmaster! God Bless! Randy SLSFFRISCOKID
In truth I have been having a hard time trying to decide between diesel and steam. I haved jumped in over my head on this R.R. but if one didnt do that where would the challenge be. My original design was a bigger R.R. in the same space with hidden stagging. I decided to cut back some what and have open stagging. Doubling the hill is easy as I will be comming out of the town of Nicole at the bottom of the grade and arriving in the town of Tiftonia at the top, I may even run helper service between the two. Thanks for your time and input I do not have such help locally at least not yet. [This message has been edited by Kraydune (edited 18 December 2000).]
Hey Kraydune, if you get into real trouble with that hill, call me over at the roundhouse and I'll come running with a couple of Big Boys and a 2-8-8-2! We may either bottom out or break a few couplers, but it really gets interesting when your topping that hill down to about 7 miles an hour with the Johnson bar in your lap and hanging on the throttle with one hand and sanding for all your worth with the other!! Threr is a thrill in steam railroading. In the same situation a diesel would be pulling around 1,300 amps Harold tells me! WOW! (anyway you look at it, enjoy it!) ------------------ Watash #982
I had a lot of trouble with a new 2-8-0 until I sent it to Bachman, not once but twice. (and they had it for more than a month each time). Now I have a very smooth performing, good pulling engine. I too have 2.5-3% grades on my small layout, but the 2-8-0 pulls 10 (or more) 40' (maximum size on my layout, my rules) cars up the curvy inclines. I weight my cars to at least 3.5 oz. @ (and now they're happy to stay on track). I'll admit that my motor in a box (diesel) pulls more cars, but it doesn't look nearly as good with only the wheels moving... and then there's sound (Soundtraxx DSD150 with tender speaker and cam) Almost half of my track is hidden in a mountain, so it's nice to know that the engine is moving, not just "on" (the cam makes sound only if the wheels are turning...)
Don't be discouraged Kray as what you are experiencing is common, we have all had similar problems. My N scale layout consists of a 2% grade with curves at the time of building I was unaware of the effect the curves had on the grade. I run multiple units now and have not regretted my mistake. As for diesel or steam that is really your decision I'm a diesel person but still have a couple of steam engines just to add to my layout. Good luck with you modelling ------------------ Regards Paul Cassar-Moderator & Member number 50 SPAD Investigator #1 ICQ 61198217 http://users.bigpond.net.au/railroad2000
I'd also like to welcome you to trainboard, there are a great deal of talented modellers here who are always willing to help ------------------ Regards Paul Cassar-Moderator & Member number 50 SPAD Investigator #1 ICQ 61198217 http://users.bigpond.net.au/railroad2000 [This message has been edited by Colonel (edited 21 December 2000).]
Hi kraydune, I am glad that I am not the only one having problems with the spectrums. My 4-8-2 went back to the store and did not get replaced yet. I had 2 2-8-0's and one of those went back and the one I kept wobbles badly and has pitiful electrical p-u. Does anyone know what Bachman will do for me if anything. My 2 Athearn mikes run very well, one better than the other but the best steamer award goes to Life-like for the Heritage 0-8-0. they are perfect if possible. they are heavy and pull strong run silently and silky smooth. The extra cost is worth it. I guess I should pressure Bachman to make my 2-8-0 right or give me another but it would probably stink as well. Maybe there are some good ones out there but shame on Bachman for the inconsistency. Happy Holidays ------------------ No! Your track is not clean.
Hey scott are you sure you got the Spectrum 2-8-0 ? They also made a 2-8-0 a few years ago that wasent as good as the spectrim. I have had 3 of the Spectrim 2-8-0s and all of them ran very well, and no one that I know has ever had any problems with them. I didnt but any of the 4-8-2s so I cant comment on them. The Atherns and lifelike steamers are great , I agree. I got one of the 2-8-8-2s and have another one on order. Saw the 0-8-0s run too, real smooth.....Mike [This message has been edited by Mike C (edited 24 December 2000).]
Hi all My Christmas gifts helped me decide on my motive power. I am going to do what the real railroads did , put steam in the scrap yard and run diesels. Looks like athearn F units for first painting attempts. Happy Modeling All.
<font color="336633">will this be the Genesis F's or the normal ones??</font> ------------------ Matthew wheres all the C636's???? stickymonk.com Matts Photo gallery TrainBoard member #257
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mike C: Hey scott are you sure you got the Spectrum 2-8-0 ? They also made a 2-8-0 a few years ago that wasent as good as the spectrim. I have had 3 of the Spectrim 2-8-0s and all of them ran very well, and no one that I know has ever had any problems with them. I didnt but any of the 4-8-2s so I cant comment on them. The Atherns and lifelike steamers are great , I agree. I got one of the 2-8-8-2s and have another one on order. Saw the 0-8-0s run too, real smooth.....Mike [This message has been edited by Mike C (edited 24 December 2000).]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Hey Mike, Yep, they are for sure the spectrum and I have had several people blast me on other forums for insulting their spectrums which they say run great. Thanks for being a little more kind in your responce. I would not worry to much about it and justgo buy another but I have bought and seen 4 or 5 spectrums and have been less than impressed with all. Maybe they were built on Monday. thanx scott
I am not sure right now. I am looking for low cost shells for the first few attempts at painting. I would like to know if I can find F unit shells or GP-7 shells that would fit the p2k gp 7&9 frames. I have four of them I would like to use.
