atsfman echoes the centiments of someone else i know of in the KS city area who just happens to be a BNSF engineer and has produced several books on the ATSF. My feelings are that the BN and ATSF merger is the result of a delayed ATSF/Burlington merger. I became a BN fan several years ago and have since i can remember (probaly since birth) "LOVED" the ATSF. At first i thought i would have a cutoff date, but as time proceded BNSF and ALL it`s various paintschemes have become just as Great to me as it`s predessors. If the BN fans think that the SF should take a hike i ask this question ,who has the Greatest name in railroading? Together we are just THE GREATEST !!
Growing up in Central Illinois in the late 50's my parents used to take Sunday drives. Often we would end up in Chillicothe, Illinois and watch the Santa fe passenger fleet roll through in the afternoon. So that's why its Santa Fe All The Way!
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tunnel88: I wonder which road would have survived longer on it's own... Getting the flames rolling...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Both would have survived on their own if the UP/SP merger had fallen through. Well, until the next attempt that is. Both had sufficient revenues to remain seperate. Not knowing the reasons, I feel it was a strategic merger to counter UP's increased size after the SP merger. No matter how strong either were, one, if not both, would eventually have been swallowed by the BORG. My 2c. Gary. ------------------ Gary A. Rose The Unofficial TC&W page TrainBoard Moderator and Member No.377 N to the Nth degree!
Auuuh Gary, I think UP/SP was a result of BNSF. BNSF happened first...I also feel that neither the BN or ATSF would EVER fall into the hands of the Borg! Both BN and ATSF were NEVER UP friendly, they wouldn't let it happen, Thank God! I got hooked on ATSF from trips to Peru, IL. to see family. We'd take US 51(now I-39), passing under the ATSF on the way up and back home. The Warbonnets were flyin' evertime we'd pass under. I still railfan this area regularly, "Chilli" is one of my regular stops, to bad the Southwest Chief doesn't stop there anymore. It now takes the old CB&Q route to Galesburg and then changes back to the ATSF at Cameron, IL., just west of Galesburg. ------------------ Brent Tidaback, Member #234 BNSF Railfan-to-the Max and a N-Scaler to boot! "Ship it on the Route of The Roadrunners!" The Aransas Odessa & Western, a division of the BNSF [This message has been edited by Maxwell Plant (edited 17 October 2000).]
The flames are a rolling. Thats like trying to put out the flames with gas. My opinion is this: ATSF knew they could not stand alone by racing containers east and west it accounts for 40% of thier business. They like to call them nickel trains because thats not putting the money on the table. only a small amount. The BN had it all Intermodal and the frieght to boot. Thier commodity is COAL and lots of it. They run more coal than ATSF ran there intermodal stuff. It they would take the intermodal out of the ATSF they would have been broke. BN saw this and scoop'em up. Now they are a well rounded railroad. Shoot Krebs broke the ATSF when they tried merge with DRGW(SP). He dang near trying to do it with the BNSF. This railroad would be a lot better off if Grienstien was still running the railroad. If you look at the total picture they were in it for the money thats why both companies merged. But I don't think ATSF could have stood on thier own. But BN could they started that way when coal was found in the power river basin. BN got there first and built a freight railroad. ATSF got the intermodal rachet going and a little freight to go on the side. Now I think the railroad are trying just for a land bridge for running things between the oceans. Unfournately they forgot about the customers inside the country that need rail service to. Thats needs to be thier bread and butter instead. ------------------ Keep on railroad'n
Sorry, I disagree Jack. But I will add that I DO agree that BN and ATSF was an inevitable MERGER, they just seemed to fit well. BN didn't "scoop up" the ATSF, they merged. IF it wasn't a merger and it was a buy-out, then the "Santa Fe" would of been gone, it would be Burlington Northern, Not BNSF. Anyway, it's nothing to get "flames rolling" over so let's just be happy that the Borg got neither BN or ATSF and we got each other. BNSF RULES and UP DROOLS! ------------------ Brent Tidaback, Member #234 BNSF Railfan-to-the Max and a N-Scaler to boot! "Ship it on the Route of The Roadrunners!" The Aransas Odessa & Western, a division of the BNSF [This message has been edited by Maxwell Plant (edited 17 October 2000).]
so exactly who here was in the room when the buy out or merger was being written?i wasn't and i don't really care.as i have said before and will say again leave railroading to the railroads and leave the railfanning to the railfans.that way the railfans are happy and the railroads well who knows what they are? ------------------ ed pinkley home of the pinkley taurus
Just a nice discussion on this Topic. NO FLAMES INTENDED. Original thought though. The original Merger was suppose to be a buyout of the ATSF. Courses changed when Grienstien decided to retire as Pres. and CEO of the parent company. Krebs took over as CEO of the company. This was how BNSF was formed. Everything was set where the headquarters were and everything. If it was the other way around and ATSF was buying out the BN the headquarters were to be in Schuamburg,IL. I think if Krebs knew in advance that he was going to be the CEO of this company he would of pushed it going the other way. Grienstein retired unexpectedly. If you talk to any of the railroad employees they dislike him because of it. The only reason why I am concerned for ANY railroad merger. I want to work for the railroad one day. So I kind of make it a point to find out whats going on. No matter what company. ------------------ Keep on railroad'n
Gats, i agree with Maxwell Plant. The BNSF merger was as is the case 99.9% of the time......First! If you recall, the BORG (UP) tried to cut in on the BN and gobble up the ATSF. But the Santa Fe stockholders when repling to UP`s offer remembered the words of the Great Nancy Regan (well at least in this case) and just said "NO" ! Now tell me, is this a Great railroad or what?
I disagree Jack! I followed the merger from day one. Grienstein was on the way out. The BN stockholders wanted a new man and Krebbs was who they wanted. It was Robert Krebbs who told the BN that he was willing to run the company "BUT" only if he could bring the Santa Fe with him. Grienstien was not so willing to retire and did try to stay on as V.P. i think until he did finally leave. Double check for your self and you`ll see. That is the information i recieved anyway.
I'm a brand new BNSF fan. I never lived by, or saw very much of either the SF, or the BN. I just went to Galesburg, IL last summer, and I fell in love. BNSF everywhere, all the time, it was great. I like the Orange and Green! ------------------ What's that? A train horn? Sorry, gotta go!
I gathered this info from the BN employee's themselves. If you talk to BN employee's they say this is the worst move ever made by putting Krebs in power. In fact if they all feel this way. Including old ATSF guys think it should fly the other way. I am definitly surprised the railroads running this good. ------------------ Keep on railroad'n
Jack, All this shows you is how loyal the BN and ATSF employees are/were to their railways. Things are definetley cooling off and BNSF is finally becoming ONE Railway. It's not the BURLINGTON NORTHERN and SANTA FE railways or the SANTA FE and BURLINGTON NORTHERN railways, it's the Burlington Northern Santa Fe RAILWAY, no "S". I've heard horror stories from the old ATSF guys while changing crews over in Fort Madison, IA. I got one guy on Video talking about the lack of "shi##ers" in the BN power. And I've heard complaints from the BN guys about the ATSF dispatchers. You live in a City that has been blessed with both Railroads and as far as I'm concerned, the HEART of the BNSF. Every June, your City Celebrates the Legacy of the BN (CB&Q) and ATSF. It also looks ahead to what is to be. Move on Jack and embrace the BNSF, it is what's ahead for Railroading in North America. ------------------ Brent Tidaback, Member #234 BNSF Railfan-to-the Max and a N-Scaler to boot! "Ship it on the Route of The Roadrunners!" The Aransas Odessa & Western, a division of the BNSF
