First off, I would like to say hello. I just joined the forum trying to get ideas for what I think could be a fun new hobby. As my wife says, I always find the expensive hobbies to get involved with. Long story short: Last month, while in my local book store, I saw the issue of Classic Trains magazine with the GG1 on the cover. I remembered how much I liked that locomotive when I had a typical little kid layout many years ago. I then found out while doing research on the internet that the national model railroad convention was being held only a hour's drive from my house. I took a ride up there and was blown away by what I saw there. I knew from a friend of mine who buys Marklin HO trains for his nephew that they are of very high quality. I was checking out their display and couldn't get over the z gauge layout they had. I took their catalog home and starting looking into possibly putting together a z gauge layout. I found a store that discounts Marklin online and had in stock a new PRR GG1 along with a 4 PRR freight car set on sale, which I did buy. Did I jump the gun? Is z gauge a smart move for someone of limited experience? Once my trains arrive, I am going to need track and a transformer. Does Marklin or another company sell a starter set minus the trains or do I have to buy everything piece by piece? Am I better off just sticking with Marklin brand stuff? I am sorry for what are probably really basic questions but I really want to keep my mistakes to a minimum but I am afraid I am off to a questionable start. Thanks in advance, Chris
blushirt: If you are selecting a scale, you will probably get mostly Z scale opinions in the Z scale forum. If you have already selected Z scale, it is a good choice. I will let others give opinions of the pros and cons of Z scale for beginners. Welcome to TrainBoard.
Chris, weclome to trainboard and Z scale. Z is a little more expensive there is no doubt about that. However, the quality of trians are very high. The GG1 is a fine locomotive and you will enjoy it. Pulling power is the only issue you'll have but many here have added weight to make it better. My advice is this. For track, I buy the Micro-trains basic starting oval (about $18) and for your transformer I'd get the MRC power pack specificially designed for Z (about $35). If you are going to get some steam loco's from Marklin, I'd recomend the Zthek snail speed controller, you can get this through Ztrack magazine. Loren on the board here sells Z and others use Anthony from http://www.zscalemonster.com So browse both and see what suites you. Here is what you'll find. Senerey is the same in cost for any scale. The track is about the same. Rolling stock from MT is about the same as well. Locomotives will cost more. Usually double. In N you can get a quality Kato deisel for about $70-80 You can get quality GP's for 120-200 in Z depending on weather it is MT/AZL or the paint scheme. Quality steam in Z is tougher to come by. AZL sells some of the best but it will come with a cost. upwards of 1000 or more. (however I will say they are amazing peices for the size!) That leaves Marklin. They sell some ok runners. The best being the Pacific, you can find one on E-bay for about 150 or less. They also sell a Mike which does not run as well and a ten wheeler off the Casey Jones model (this one is pricey $300-400 for the set) Building are pelentiful and most are kits so you'll learn to build and it is fun. The costs of these are comparable to other scales. To me the hardest thing to find is cars to popluate the layout. There is nothing close to the classic metal works in terms of quality or price. Most you have to paint yourself. No small task. I think that covers most of it. Enjoy!
Gentlemen, Thank you for the quick replies. I will look into the web sites and the name brands that were recommended. I am glad to hear that the track and transformer costs aren't as bad as I had thought they might be. Thanks again for the advice and I am sure I will be a frequent visitor. Chris
Hi Chris, welcome to Trainboard. I would recommend getting the White Marklin power pack for Z Scale, as it's very reliable, and has plenty of power for any accessories you might add down the road. There are lots of different cars available in Z, but there are different couplers, so until you have more experience under your belt, I would recommend not purchasing too much rolling stock, until you decide if you want to stick with Marklin's coupler system or switch over to one of the more prototypical looking types like MTL or AZL. With Z Scale being small, you can expect more stalls, derails, and finicky operation relative to other scales. A pine needle fallen on a G Scale track will go un-noticed, but an invisible piece of cat hair can wind around a Z Scale wheel and bring you loco to an un-expected halt, so you will need to get strong reading glasses and sharp pointy tweezers to get things off the wheels and axles. Once you have resonable expectations for this size of trains, you will find you can enjoy them just as much, if not more than the other sizes of trains available. It helps to join a club or find other Z Scalers in your area to meet with and learn the ropes. There was a guy on one of the other forums recently who bit off way more than he could chew, and was always frustrated with his Z. If you find that happening, take a breather, and give it another go, and if it still frustrates, pull out before investing too much. Start by deciding weather you want to build a layout, or just setup on a table top now and again. Keep you layout area clean and dust free. Do not start with grand plans, but rather start with a small loop of track, and maybe one or to switches. Since you don't have track yet, I would recommend using the Micro-Trains track and switches, as they are easy to assemble, look good, operate well, and are resonably priced. When you decide on scenery, get the Woodland Scenics learning kits, as they make scenery easy. As always, clean and vacuum the track before running trains, especially after doing any scenery work. With all that said, there are lots of newcomers to Z Scale, who are very happy with their choice. You cannot deny the jewel aspect of small trains too, they just look cool!
Chris, Welcome to Z Scale! First, you really can't go wrong with the Marklin GG1 and freight car set you purchased. You likely received a great deal from the dealer you purchased these from. First, I recommend you read the article on Marklin's GG1 that John Cubbin of Ztrains has posted. It is a very good read. The link is: Ztrains: Marklin Z Scale GG1 Next, the think about Z scale is the quality. Z is exceptional when it comes to detail and operation. Just wait until you start running the GG1, you will see what we mean. I would highly recommend getting a Micro-Trains starter set. If you are a PRR fan, MTL offers a GP35 starter set. The PRR GP35 set is item 994 03 210. The MSRP is $279.95. This set will come with a loop of their track, four freight cars and a caboose. It is a great addition to Z. Note though, the MTL couplers are not compatible with the Marklin couplers so you will have to use a transition car or convert couplers to run the sets together. Of course, MTL does sell the track separately if you do not want to pruchase the trains. This is a very economical way to go. Also, the MTL sets do not have transformers. We do recommend the Zthek controller which we sell. Also, the MRC 1300 is an excellent option. Here are a few links that may be of interest to you: American Z Line: http://www.ztrack.com/AZL/amerzlines.html http://www.americanzline.com/ Micro-Trains Micro-Trains | The Ultimate in N and Z scale model trains Ztrack Magazine: Ztrack Magazine Ztrack Center: Ztrack Center As for branding, I say mix and match! The only issue is the couplers. But, if you purchases products from AZL, MTL, Full Throttle, and Marsilius Line, you will find that they use compatible couplers. This is important. But some dealers are will to create coupler conversion cars so for you. This is actually a fairly easy task and allow you to mix and match all Z rolling stock. It actually sounds like you are off to a great start! Rob
Hello, I just started in March and am still in Kinderz-garten, but this is what I know: NO! You are in the Golden period for Marklin. First off, Old-School Marklin is No MORE. Marklin is das Kaput. Here is the NPR article on the February 2009 dark day of Marklin: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=104149834 Marklins Kaput seems to be mirroring another German Makers Kaput, LGB (large scale trains) went kaput in 2004. Five years later, you cannot buy an American Prototype train mfr'ed by LGB. Now the new company, (original factory shuttered, orginal employees fired) is just a name on a train produced in a third country. Marklin was moving their production offshore when they went out of business. Hint, if you turn your train over and it says "made in Germany" below the Marklin stamp, it is old school black forest. Other wise, it was made in China. Perhaps the money bags who buy the marklin name will resurrect Z production. But imho, the real marklin is gone, never to be made again. Other fact, nobody noticed the demise. Marklin is, ahem, slightly overproduced in Z, and that fact is reflected in it regularly selling in the real marketplace for less than half what the original dealer sold it for at Marklins MSRP. So here you have a commodity, like land, which they are not making anymore of, and it is still selling for distress sale prices. I share the above with you because in My HUMBLE opinion, MARKLIN GERMAN product is a SCREAMING buy! Like land, they are NOT making any more of the old sod, gnomes in the black forest and all that good GERMAN quality Marklin anymore! Modelbahn OTT (google for URL) purchased most of the American Warehouse of Marklins distributor in the US and is selling brand new, factory fresh Marklin for omigosh (low prices) both on their website and on the bay (bufbills) Yes, Marklin only requires one tasker from the buyer: read the owner's pamphlet. I will share a secret with you: Marklin oils its locomotives at the factory with concrete oil. After twenty hours, the oil hardens to concrete, and the armature will not turn the gears/wheels. If you amp up the volume, you will see the magic blue smoke appear. You do not want to see the magic blue smoke appear. So, read the pamphlet on oiling and oil the loco before you put it into service. I am partial to the magic red LGB oil, but it is liquid gold and harder to find than gold. so Labelles light oil for plastic, or similar oils from other MFR's will probably be just as good. Keep your loco oiled as per Marklin instruction and it will provide a lifetime of service. Marklin proved that in an adv once. Half a million hours or some other krazy stat of continuous running. Locos to buy: The experts say Marklin Pacifics are preferable to Marklin Mikados for running. I am a sucker for F7 diesels in warbonnet colors. All agree the newer 5 pole motors (like your GG1) are preferable to the older 3 pole motors. (Checkout the righteous buy on a five pole Marklin Pennsy F7-A and B unit at modelbahn ott!) Buy all the GG1's you can afford at $149. they aint' gonna make em anymore. OK, I go off the marklin reservation here. look up Norms Train world (google for URL) and buy his MTL-produced table top oval of track, already installed on a nice wood table-top (wife eye friendly) with optional legs for stand-alone use, and complete with transformer, for $57. I say buy this to start, because later, after you have your REAL layout, you will pull this out, decorate it for christmas, and use it as a seasonal layout. But it will get you running immediately upon receipt now. Yes, no, maybe Here is the deepest, darkest secret. It will save you thousands of dollars. are you ready? Buy your layout used. Thats it, buy your layout used. No matter what kind of stuff they use I am ham fisted, all thumbs and too vain to wear bi-focals. So I have no business in the z-business putting together itty bitty buildings. Except for one cold, hard fact: There are real artists and craftsmen out there, building BEE-YOU-TI-FUL z layouts costing thousands of dollars. And then, go figure, they tire of the layout, or their buyer tires of the layout, and it ends up selling on the bay.....FOR PENNIES on the dollah! Even the Franklin Mint got into bed with marklin and made a Norman Rockwell dogbone layout with Americana all over the place, big buck item.....that the last one on the bay sold for 50 CENTS ON THE DOLLAH! Good deal! It is not a once in a lifetime opportunity. These craftsmen-built and store-built custom Z layout sets show up almost every day on the bay. I've bought five, just since march 09! Pennies on the dollar invested, I kid you not. So, with Marklin prices at distress sale levels, Old school marklin no more, pre-constructed layouts at pennies on the dollar, I believe this to be the golden age of z-scale railroading cost-wise. Your mileage may vary, but spend a few bucks and purchase a Z-track mag subscription, it is the reference file for all things z. Just don't get me started on.....BRASS!!!! It is my kryptonite.
Welcome to Trainboard, Chris and Sumgai. I cant add to anything to the advice Joe, Rob, and Sumgai gave. I dont run dc anymore, but when I was, my favorite power set up was a modify MRC1300 for z with a electronic cleaner. With that set up, I had some really smooth running engines. I also didnt have to clean my track as much. Somegai, tell us about the brass. I would love to hear it.
Pray59/ZTrack/Shamoo/Sumgai Thanks for the additional information. I think I am going to start off very small at first with maybe just a single loop. I'll see how that works out and then maybe proceed to the extension set. I think sticking to the basics is the way to go at this point. My only problem is my one local hobby store doesn't stock any z gauge stuff. Since I live in the NYC metro area, a better choice of stores is less than a hour's drive away. I really appreciate the advice and will probably order some things from the online vendors that were recommended eventually. I am looking forward to my trains being delivered and I am sure that will jumpstart me getting the basic layout up and running.
I only have a little bit of Z (no pun intended), but as a native of Jersey City and a big fan of the PRR, I cannot congratulate you enough on your initial choice of a GG-1... As someone who's been in model railroading (in those other, bigger scales mostly), I concur with the concept of starting off slowly. There's no shame in that. Learn and enjoy while learning!
Chris, my favorite vendor on line are, Zscale Monster, Anthony has everything you ever need in Z, but he is in vacation. Still, I would check out his site first to see what is available in z. http://www.zscalemonster.com/ I also order from Norm's trainwold. They have very fast service. Z Scale - NORMSTRAINWORLD.COM My favorite MTL dealer is Loren fro Z trains and things. He doesnt have a website, but he ships very quickly. ljsnyder@charter.net
Welcome to Z scale & to Trainboard. You did not make a goof by buying Marklin. Unlike the other scales, there are no junk makers in Zscale. You can have the same repair & maintenance issues as with other scales. MTL track mostly matches the geometry of Marklin track. You may not mix the 2, but you can use MTL track to fit some Marklin plans. Starting with the simple loop of the starter set or the little bit larger Expansion set is a great way to start. You can use the MTL/MRC 1300 that allows you to run both MTL & Marklin trains (one at a time). The Marklin trains run best up to 8v, while MTL can run on 10v max. You may not want to run any train over 9v. The MTL/MRC pack includes a sticker to tell you when the throttle gets up to those levels. The larger N/HO packs could be too powerful. Somebody mentioned the incompatible couplers. You can get a MTL/MK transition boxcar that lets you link one coupler to the other. You may also still find older MTL models with MK couplers. Searching on the net at places like those mentioned can yield some summertime bargains. Watch for clearance sales for the LHS suffering from hard times.
I'm an N scaler, so I might be wrong, but can't he make his own transition car, just by swapping trucks? That's what I did.
Absolutely, Rodney. Its probably the cheapest way, but sometimes its easier on newbies to buy a trasition car. Everything seems so complicated when you just beginning a new hobby. You can also replace the Marklin coupler on the GG-1, but its a little more complicated.
Anthony / ZSM has some transition cars with MTL/MK couplers on each end. The couplers are MTL product. You can also get new sideframes/couplers for the MTL F7/GP7/35. When I started, I didn't have a lot of Marklin equipment to convert. All I needed was something to pull the OT D&RGW passenger cars. There is another product to replace the truck spacing on Marklin caboose & steamer tender (US Mikado/Pacific). Not so easy to swap trucks on other Marklin cars.
Chris, I don't have much in my ebay store at the moment because I'm through feeding ebay their support, but I do carry all MTL items..........a bit less than most dealers. If you let me know what you want, I'll be glad to quote you a price. I sell all AZL and MTL for 25% off list prices. Best to you and welcome to the Zmall world. ljsnyder@charter.net Loren Z Train Things
Furthermore, MTL continues to release MK compatible couplers, not anymore factory installed but available as spare parts to fit every MTL car or locomotive. Dom
One thing I would definately reccomend is taking out a subscription to Z-track magazine. Rob is one of the scales great enthusiast and I think the magazine has done a lot for the growth of interest in the scale over the last few years. I have 5 Z layouts three of which make regular appearances on the U.K Model railway exhibition scene and one thing I have done is snap up any U.S.A starter sets made by Marklin as I have found them. The small set with the 4-6-2 and freightcars, oval of track and the grey controller is a snip at about £100 (Say $160 at today exchange rate) and less common but still very useful is the slightly larger set with the 2-8-2. We use converter cars a lot on our 'Cuyahoga' Nickel Plate Road layout as we have a mixture of couplings on our own stock plus we get visiting trains from other Z enthusiasts. The converter cars are a mix of body styles, Express boxcars to connect MTL locos to Marklin coaches, Hoppers to connect big trains of Penzeee, Full throttle and Marklin hoppers together and gondolas for general usage
