I have always wondered why the Central numbered locomotives for the Big Four and for the Michigan Central in different series than for the main line. For instance, this loco, a J-1d Hudson, was originally numbered 6611 as shown. Later it took on a 53XX number. This one was introduced on the CCC&StL or Big four. We need to welcome LEW who worked on this great railroad. Maybe he can shed some light on the numbering system. This photo is from the Harold K. Vollrath collection.
Jim, that's a great photo. I thought the 53xx Hudsons were assigned to the Central? I believe I saw a bunch of them on the Hudson and Harlem Divisions in the 40's and early 50's. Weren't the B&A 6xx series J-2's renumbered into the 53xx series when they went over to the Harlem Division ... or were they in the 54xx series ... [ 06 May 2002, 01:20: Message edited by: Hank Coolidge ]
Hank, you have forced me to do some research (I really do love to research NYC stuff, just wish I could RETAIN in my feeble mind what I find). According to Al Staufer, the 6600-6619 (J-1d's) were renumbered 5375-5394. 6620-6629 (J-1e's) were renumbered 5395-5404. The B&A J-2's became 5455-5474. Then we have the 8200 series for the MS...................
All of the railroads that NYC controlled or I should say many,were still operated seperate from the NYC This continued until 1930 at which time the NYC took complete control. The B4,MCand the B&A numbered their engines for their own RR until 1936. At this time numbers were intergrated as with the Hudsons or new series started as with the L-2 b and d.This new number was 2900. The NYC and B4 kept the last 2 numbers and placed 29 in front.So the B4 6233 became the 2933 one of 2 NYC mohawks left. The 2933 is at ST.Louis.When the diesels came they started changing numbers but they still stayed in a series.Maybe this will help. LEW
Thanks LEW. It's great to have you on board, a big Welcome! I never paid much attention to numbering when I was a kid, just to the different shapes, sizes, clanks, clunks, and wheezes of the different engines. I do remember when some J2's of the B&A 6xx series were transferred to the Harlem Division and re-numbered into the Central's 54xx series. They were the biggest engines that I saw on a daily basis, and I rode behind many of them. Again, welcome aboard. I hope we get to talk with you often. [ 08 May 2002, 13:29: Message edited by: Hank Coolidge ]
LEW, thank you for explaining that and welcome to Trainboard. I didn't realize that the Mohawks just dropped the first two digits and kept their last two. I have a couple of Harold Vollrath's photos of Mohawks on the Big Four with original numbers. A long time ago I posted a thing here asking for observed differences in details on the NYC steamers, like the different hangers for the Baker Valve gear, the different size (always larger) sand domes, etc. Maybe you can tell us WHEN these changes started and how long it took to complete all of one kind of engine, if it ever was completed.
Baker valve gear.For lack of a better discription I will call it productive engineering. As the engines became larger it affected many things on them. If you will look at a picture of the 2-8-2 you will see at the back of the crosshead guide there is a large casting shaped like a C that supports the guides. This casting is almost between the front driver and the intermediate driver.The hangers were mounted to this casting.On the few H-5s and H-7s that had Walschaert valve gear the support for the link was mounted on the same laying down V support.Not all Walsc- haert supports were like this. Check the support on an H-6. When the larger engines came with a 4 Wheel pony truck this moved the center of the front driver to the point where valve gear pivoted.In order to keep the gear in the same distance from the end of the guides they designed a casting to carry the gear and be strong and not have any deflection.You will notice this casting came out on the 4-8-2,4-6-4 not the early 4-6-4 they had Wal. and the 4-8-4.The front of the casting was mounted at the same location on the frame as the 2-8-2 and the rear between the first and second driver.This casting was the only way they could span this distance. On the H-5s that were converted from a G-5 2-8-0 if it was done in house the small sand dome was not changed if Brooks did the rebuild a larger sand dome was added.The B&A had large sand domes and I think these were added in house. The 5300s-5400 4-6-4 came with a larger dome.I don't remember any changed domes on L-2,L-3,or L-4 or H-10 LEW
Wow! Thanks, LEW. There is more technical information in that message than you can find in some of the old journals. I never noticed that the forward attach point for the Baker hangers was in the same relative position of that old "C" on Mikes, and the distance relationship. Thanks. Please feel free to bring up any kind of technical subject about the NYC steamers. We are all eager to learn.
I agree ... "WOW"! Lew, Thank you VERY MUCH! I had never even considered anything that you are talking about . Probably because no one had ever taken the time or patience to explain it. Now I will re-look at photos of K's, J's, H's, L's, and F's that were assigned to the Harlem and Putnam Divisions so I can try to understand what you have just explained. [ 12 May 2002, 01:09: Message edited by: Hank Coolidge ]
