Perhaps someone has already asked this question and if I'm repeating it, then kindly redirect me to such a previous posting. When configuring the CV's in a decoder, is there a hidden secret or some sort of flow chart I need to be looking at? Seems to me there should be a flow chart with numbers or some such. The instructions for MRC Prodigy Advance, say to "Visit the Resource section of our website." Found at the end of the first paragraph page 2-5, Operation. I haven't been able to find a resource section on the MRC website. Can you direct me to said information? A big THANK-YOU in advance!
It might be an oversight, but sometimes the link you want is labeled 'Tech help', or "downloads", or something like that...maybe "Manuals". Edit: I looked for a bit, but agree that the site is hopefessly complicated...not user friendly for finding manuals. Try doing a search for the decoder you have...maybe a link to a manual will pop up...but I don't hold out much hope.
Coverton, Neither do I...I said with a hint of disgust. I can find the manual and copy any page I want but nothing is there (unless I missed it) as to a "How To" on the CV's. Here's where I was directed: MRC - RC, Hobby, Remote Control, Radio Control, Flight Simulators, Battery Chargers, 1/32 Slot Cars, Model Trains, Plastic Models Thanks for giving it a shot.
I don't know what your dealing with but when I have a problem programing CV's It's usually ---Some decoders like to be programmed in the (Direct Mode) rather than the (Paged Mode) or the other way around ---- Sometimes you have to put a resistor across the program track to trick the command station to think its seeing a engine motor ,if your just trying to program the decoder.~AlanC
I'm going to WHAT? No, I really need to change the CV settings in a locomotives decoder. I can, CAN and did... get into the CV adjustments but when it comes to filling in the three blanks _ _ _ I have no clue what to enter. Ie., Ohms resistance, voltage, Amps, RPM's, my age, height, weight...my bank pin...WHAT? baffled: Seems to me there should be a list of numbered values that tell the computer chip in the decoder what to do. A flow chart of sorts... like 002, or 007 and/or if you are twice as good 014. I was hoping this information is posted here...perhaps hidden in another thread. A search here... didn't lead to anything significant. Does that help? mad:
Some CV values are read as arbitrary definitions (ie. 001 = yes, 000 = no) while others are more like percentages (ie. 0% = 000 and 100% = 255). Perhaps this documentation from the NMRA is what you're looking for? It lists the CVs, what they do, and how different values affect the operation. http://www.nmra.org/standards/DCC/standards_rps/RP-922 2006 July 25.pdf
Mark, Thanks for your help! Seems we must have hit on the same thing at the same time. I went to: CV's ????? - TrainBoard.com and found a discussion on CV's??? You can find it by looking down below this thread, at the list of similar topics, previously submitted. I found the following:SPROG DCC Guide to DCC - What are CVs? I was then directed to: http://www.nmra.org/standards/DCC/st...0July%2025.pdf Now my question is...is there anything simpler? What, this isn't Burger King and I can't have it my way...right? This isn't going to be easy or simple...from the looks of things.
Rick, Most of my experience with decoders so far has been with TCS decoders. I found the information on this page helpful in trying to learn about CV's. TCS Downloadable Literature
Rick, you want DecoderPro. PS. if you realy want to play with the CV's come on down the hill and visit. We can get DeocderPro fired up and see what your locos can do.
Rick, Two questions: What brand and model of model of decoder and what are you wanting to change in the decoder? The NMRA standards can sometimes be helpful, but you really need to look at the datasheet for the decoder you are wanting to program. If you look at the NMRA Recommended Practices for decoder CVs, there are mandatory, recommended, and optional CVs. Only four CVs are mandatory, two of which(manufacturer ID and version number) are read-only, four are recommended, and the rest are optional, so CVs can and do vary a lot from decoder to decoder. Many of the CVs are supported by most decoders, but even then sometimes the exact implementation is different from manufacturer to manufacturer. As far as knowing what value to program for a CV, that will vary depending on what CV you are wanting to change. Often times it is a matter of trying different value until you find what you like. For example, when adjusting momentum, the manufacturer may give a formula for how they implement momentum so that you can determine with a certain value it will take x amount of time for the engine to accelerate from zero to full speed, but most people just plug in increasing numbers until they get what feels right to them. For some CVs, such as ones for configuring lighting effects or function mapping, the manufacturer will often have a chart or table where you can look up if I want to do "this", then I plug in "this number," but again, that will vary from decoder to decoder.
Well, you can vary the level of burn involved, but it's gonna be cooked one way or the other Part of the reason for the apparent complexity is historical, though in fact the principles are very simple. DCC goes back a good few years now and in those days the power and memory of small chips (that could fit in an HO loco) was quite limited. Like your old DOS computer these things were (are) 16-bit, so the data gets handled that way. A 16 bit memory (register) can handle values from 0-65535 and (roughly speaking) we call this a CV in DCC. However the small chips of old had limited memory and hence number of registers, so if some values only need a few different states (maybe just 2 (on/off) or a couple of hundred (for 0-100%)) they would be packed together into a single register. If you have 16 cows to transport you don't put them in 16 cars - you put them in one or two This is the main reason for the 'complexity' in DCC - it is just a bit awkward having two or more values packed into the same CV. Modern chips could probably walk all over this problem, but then we have compatibility issues with older stuff unless we tell everyone to junk ALL their DCC kit and begin all over. In the meantime bits haven't disappeared from the rest of the world of electronics. Modern PCs are now up to 64-bit having gone from 16 through 32-bit. But with Windows, Linux and Mac the OS handles all this 'bit'ness and provides you with a nice visual interface. DecoderPro also provides that sort of interface for DCC (on a good day at least ). But simple command stations simply don't yet have the power and display sophistication to do this yet, though some are better than others. So the user usually ends up being exposed to some of the raw bits, especially when getting into some of the less commonly adjusted items. This is why there are various converter tables, etc, to help make sense of things. I know it doesn't help make it simpler for you, but I hope you will understand that DCC wasn't designed to be a dog's breakfast. Like so many things it started out as the best thing possible at the time.
Actually, those early DCC chips, and even many of the ones they use now, were 8 bit which gives us our CV value range of 0 - 255.
To John Paulson, Thanks for the invite. You might find Steve and I standing on your door step, asking for help. I will let you know in advance. We'd like to come down and visit and possibly bring a new friend along. Mike Sheridan, Thanks I will digest all you said here in the near future and thanks for helping me get focused. Tad, Your help is appreciated. I will be giving TCS a look. CSX Robert, What I'm attempting to do is improve the lag time on two different locomotives. Right now they both start up around 7 on the speed indicator. Perhaps it doesn't get any better then that and you could advise me accordingly. We just want to make the two locomotives we own that are DCC equipped... more responsive and sensitive to direct dial up...grin... if you get my drift. Mark Watson, I loved algebra so this may give me a chance to practice some rusty skills. The NMRA resource you shared is eleven pages long and does have flow charts. Very helpful. To all thanks for your response. Stay tuned Steve and I may have more questions???????eek: Actually there are three of us making the switch to DCC Steve, Stubby and myself. So you are giving us a three-fer. Translation: three for one... as if I really had to spell it out. Grin!
Ah! My bad. I didn't realise they went back that far :embarassed: . I thought they were half a 16 bit.
I think I do get your drift. If I understand correctly, your locomotives do not start moving until your throttle reads "7," and you want them to start moving when the throttle reads "1." There are two ways to address this issue. The first is by adjusting Vstart or CV2. This is one of the "Recommended" CVs, so it is not required by all decoders, but I can not think of any off hand that do not have it. Different manufacturers do have different ranges of values for CV2, some allow 0-31 and some allow 0-255. By increasing CV2, you increase the voltage applied to the motor at speed step 1. One problem with increasing CV2 until the engine will run on speed step 1 is sometimes you can loose some slow speed control. As an example, if your engine will not start until you reach 7 on the throttle, but will continue to run if you back off the throttle to say 4 or 5, then if you increase CV2 so that it will start on speed step 1 you loose the ability to back off some. Some decoders have additional features to help get an engine moving at lower speeds, but again, they vary by manufacturer, and have different names and different CVs. Some examples are "Dither," "Torque Compensation," and "Kick Start." The other method is by using Bemf compensation. Bemf compensation is not supported by all decoders and for the ones that do support it, it's implementation varies greatly from one manufacturer to another. When configured correctly, Bemf compensation will automatically increase the voltage at speed step 1 until the engine starts moving.
Robert, I will be heading out to the train shed here shortly and give your instructions a go. Thanks again for the help and that goes for all who participated here. I will let you know what happens so stay tuned.
Rick.. Don't over complicate this thing. Just change the basic CV's as you get the system going. Mark
Rick, that's good advice. The other extreme is to try coding up a QSI sound decoder. The programming manual is 265 pages long! :tb-hissyfit: Start with Vlow and Vhigh (CVs 2 and 5) and then Vmid if you have it. Which decoder is it? Knowing this will help us help you to refine the configuration.
Originally Posted by catfan Rick...Don't over complicate this thing. Just change the basic CV's as you get the system going. Originally posted by Mark Rick, that's good advice. The other extreme is to try coding up a QSI sound decoder. The programming manual is 265 pages long! End of quotes: Oh, that's such good news....yikes. Here is an update. Steve stopped by for a visit. Disclaimer: Anything said here is strictly reflects on me and not Steve. We all understand that...right? We proceeded to the train shed to see what damage we could...ahh...I mean, to see what we could learn. Well....we managed to put in umpteen different variances and eventually either added to much data or to little. I managed to deprogram the decoder or so I thought. The locomotive would not respond and "SVDA" appeared on the screen and we both looked at each other as if to say, "What the...well...you know". Yep, you could say..."Everything normal..." I'm sure you know the rest. After several attempts to restart you could hear me say, "That's odd it won't run!" So, off went the power supply, I changed the tether to another port. Repowered the brain and on it came. Up pops a normal screen, recall brings up the address of the locomotive but it still won't run. However, it does run on another address. Believing that to be a clue... I put in the original address... the number on the switcher. I then put in zero for the accel and decel rates and low and behold it actually ran. What did we learn? That we couldn't change the CV values. Hey, I learned how to turn it off and on and move the tether...sheez! That despite all the attempts by both of us to reprogram the start voltage and momentum type of features. We didn't change a thing. I mean if this is what it is...I can be happy with it...I think. There again maybe not. Odd, I'd still rather play with my analog and the adjustable momentum features. At least they are predictable. Seriously, it wasn't a good afternoon...at all. This decoder may be protected by some sort of default value that causes it to go back to one setting. To answer a question: I thought, I had already said I'm using a MRC Prodigy Advance system. If not...there you are. So............. it doesn't read CV 12, or CV 29, or CV 36. It's more like Add, SV, Accel, Decel, TV, CV_ _ _ and etc. Not an easy read although we thought we had it figured out. Steve was able to change his settings on his MRC Advance 2 system. The one he uses on his HO layout. Nothing, but nothing, absolutely nothing was changeable on my system. There's your report and any assuming...well...it made an ass out of me. Don't ask me what I think about DCC right now. You don't want to know. Just give me a chance to climb up the learning curve and then I will share my opinion.
