I know this sounds funky, but I found a source that said the C&O's Pere train had in the observation car a control stand for backing. My guess is possibly in station movements, but it made it sound like they ran North engine forward and South obs forward. I don't recall the source, but I beleive it was an article I found in Google Books. Seems unleikely, but not impossible. I do know I've read the train was structured almost completley to avoid having to turn the coaches, but yet the pics I've seen have one E unit, which would have to be turned anyway, and the baggage cars run around. Or not, if the above is true...
I do not know of nor can I see any special cables on the Pere Marquettes that would allow control of the head end power from the rear car (observation). There was a provision in the B units for a control station, but the original Pere Marquettes had a single E7 A unit for power.
Just an old railroader, making an educated guess...in order to back a train, a crew member must proceed or ride the "leading end" of the move - with a "Back-up" hose or conductor's valve to control the air, (in case of radio failure). If the observation had no platform or doorway in which the crew member could safely ride, the equivalent of such controls could have been built-in to the observation compartment, where a rear view would be available, and called a "control stand" - a SAFE place for the member directing the move. Personal equipment radios only became common in the late '60s - early '70s - the brake pipe air was used to signal/slow/stop backing movements on freight and passenger service beyond the '90s, and may (?) still be used as a "back-up" to radio communication. A long-winded guess, this...but maybe of interest to somebody, for modeling or "operations" purposes. Bob C.
That would make sense. The PM was a blunt-ended observation, but it did have a door though. As far as air being a backup, the rule I know is if the Conductor cannot reach the engineer or brakeman (if there is one) and he has reaosn to believe the train is out of his control, such as a non-responsive engineer will do, he has full permission to "communicate" with the air line. Dumping the brakes usually makes a point VERY clear. The Conductor's hose is still in effect as far as I know on Amtrak. I've not seen it on freight. And yes, a modelling interest this is, once I get a few more projects moving...
The observation-dome cars on the Pere Marquettes were actually tapered/rounded, and had an observation dome on top. These cars were built by Budd in the late 1940's and were originally intended to be used on The Chessie, which never came to be. These cars were numbered 1875-1877. There is no visible air control on these cars, either inside or out. Later on into the 1950's and 1960's, other C&O cars were used as the last car on the consist. Car number 1875 eventually made it's way to the Chesapeake and Ohio Historical Society, is now at Clifton Forge, Virginia. Two excellent books showing these cars: Chesapeake and Ohio Streamliners by James Kemper Millard, and Chesapeake & Ohio's Pere Marquettes by Thomas W. Dixon, Jr. Both books are available from the Chesapeake and Ohio Historical Society.
Chooch42 has it correct. On the BNSF METRA trains, when we would shove into the yard, a trainman or conductor(usually the rear brakeman)would stand in the open train door of the east coach. There was a rigid tailhose there with a brake valve and a small shrill whistle. Take into consideration that our operation was push/pull so the rear (or east) coach also had a full control cab up in the gallery. When shoving into the yard, we would communicate with the hogger in the locomotive(west/outbound end) and inform him as to the signal indication(CTC) track lineup and car counts and other pertinent info. We would give the standard three short blasts on the tail whistle to begin the backup move and begin the shove. One had to be cautious and aware during the "backup move"(there is a reason for the asterisks) for proper track lineup and also there are spot markers in the yard and the train has to be positioned exactly since yard space is limited and for the most part the hogger couldn't see his marker until he was on top of it. Sometimes in bad weather it required nerves of steel as well as good vision! Charlie
Um, no(?). I've flipped through the Pere Marquettes and fully intend to pick up a copy. I've never seen a Dome car of any kind mentioned. I'd believe "tapered" but all the consists I've seen have been engine-baggage-bag/mail-blunt obs-coach-dining-coach-blunt obs. Done so that the train could be walked through. I'm for sure the 1875-77 went to the DRGW. Then they recieved their end door for midtrain service. Here's the book: http://books.google.com/books?id=ThPiAAAAMAAJ&q=Pere+Marquette+C%26O&dq=Pere+Marquette+C%26O&hl=en&ei=WjtbTO6hCoT78AaryNj4AQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=book-thumbnail&resnum=7&ved=0CFAQ6wEwBg A pic of the train: http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...L3pAQ&esq=1&page=1&ndsp=32&ved=1t:429,r:4,s:0 Another book cover: http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...pAQ&esq=4&page=4&ndsp=33&ved=1t:429,r:27,s:99 There's no dome car. Of that I'm sure.
Flash, the Conductor's /back-up hose disappeared from general use on freight right around the time the cabin (caboose) where it was usually stored, did from our operations. The occupied rear of the train and proliferation of personal radios relegated these appliances to the yard office wall, or a shed/cabinet at a point-of-need. I don't even remember the "signal" procedures the "Old Fellas" used to control and direct movements but there had to be understandings of the movement(s) between the Conductor/Trainman and the Engineer to accomplish a move out of sight (dark, precipitation, distance, curves, tunnels etc.) WITHOUT electronic communication, as it was into the '70s, even on Class I properties. Few now have ever seen this equipment, or "worked" with it...some weren't even taught hand/lantern signals, were told to rely on radios ! Scary. Bob C.
Flashwave - look again at the book Chesapeake and Ohio's Pere Marquetes - on pages 46, 47, 49 you can see the dome-observation cars. There are some really nice pictures of these cars on pages 50, 51, and 94 in the book C&O Streamliners Second to none. The original 1946 Pere Marquettes did not have the dome-observation cars - but shortly after operation began, the dome-observations from The Chessie (which actually never ran) were migrated north to Michigan for Pere Marquette use. When operation of the Pere Marquettes first began, PM "flat end" cars 20 through 23 were assigned one on each end of the train (2 trains, so four cars total) so that only the engine needed to be turned. These might be the observation cars you have in mind. There is a good detail photo of the end of one of these cars on page 37 of C&O's Pere Marquettes. Later on, the dome-observation cars were used on the connector train that ran between Holland and Muskegon. This branch runs through my backyard! Talking with old railroaders that worked with the Pere Marquettes, they never did much backing of the train - motive power was turned as was the dome/observation car; baggage cars were run-around to the other end. They never ran as push/pull trains. I got a lot of information on PM passenger operations from Art Million, who was head of the Pere Marquette Historical Society - he lived about 20 minutes north of me until his death a couple years ago. I have also received info from Tom Dixon, who is the head of the Chesapeake and Ohio Historical Society, and you can go to that site and if you are a member, you can ask for specific information. Hope this helps! (I can post some pictures if you like...)
Ah, okay, that onbe I do recall, pulled by BL2s. I've talekd to Tom on the yahoo group before, I went looking for George Washington info. Kinda figures. I know we mention lantern signals in my GCOR class, which was 4th ed., their up to 6 now. And the ITM conductor hoses are hanging in the dispatcher's office as well. And we HAVE cabeese.
Here's a picture that might help - it shows the Pere Marquette at Union Station, Grand Rapids Michigan, being backed up. Note that the E7 is not in the photo - it's being turned and a steam powered switcher is doing the pushing. Photo used with permission from the Brian Bluekamp collection.
