I have nothing against the concept of having several trains running on independent loops. Or having trains duck in and out of tunnels at various elevations. What I am pointing out is that your approach to track planning seems to focus pretty much exclusively on helixes. You want a layout where you can flick on a switch and just watch the trains run. First time you actually described what your design goal was, despite running this thread in three-four different forums. Okay - so why plan a multi-deck layout with narrow aisles? Why go for long loops if your main goal is to simultaneously see several trains move independent of each other on separate loops? Why not e.g. plan a single layer waterwings shaped layout which has an open vista towards a large open space where you can place a comfy chair from which you can watch the trains run. Say something like Paul's plan, but with the second turnback loop along the left wall instead of coming out into the room on a peninsula, with room for a viewing position (for several people) by the shelf at the center of the lower wall? Double track main at front, raised single track on ledges and bridges with tunnels say 4-6" higher up in the hillside. Smile, Stein
RGS - Ophir Loop I still don't think you have the vision I am trying to build but that's OK maybe with this topic you and others might get there and then help me avoid construction/maintenance access pitfalls. The Deep/Narrow aisle actually has a purpose by creating a Deep / Narrow Canyon look I want that could represent something like the Rio Grande Southern Ophir Loop with various trestles along the way as well as a tunnel on the far end. No Chair will be in the room, mainly just me seeing my D&H roster snake it's way through the Rocky Mountains from various angles...
Not sure I understand the connection between a narrow aisle and modeling the Ophir Loop. Is your goal is to stand alone in a narrow aisle, with layout surrounding you on three sides, watching a passenger train (from the east coast) coming in from the left, god down along a narrow Rocky Mountains valley along the aisle on your left, turn back at the end of the aisle, come back towards you on the right side of the aisle, and then disappear towards the right - i.e with the viewing position being inside the loop? Or are you envisioning more to have the loop be in a deeper scene ahead of you, so the train first travel left, then right in front of you, like in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXE350o840s ? In either case, where does the trains on many levels and many trains running at the same time fit into this vision of the Ophir Loop? Smile, Stein
Stein, I believe that you are trying to help Darren, but if you do not like the way Darren wants to do his layout, why bother to keep reading and commenting on his postings. Seems kind of odd.
Have you learned any more about what Darren's goals are after I started asking questions? Does it have any value (both for Darren and for the rest of us) to understand more clearly what Darren's goals are ? Smile, Stein
Hi Darren, i might be a bit short sighted, but reading your wishes over and over again, i thought you were heading for a plan like this: As stated before a bit track-heavy IMHO, though it might fit your bill perfectly. The red track is up the helix, i would have second thoughts about this however. Most derailments occur when going down; if the grade is not critical you could use the outer track for downward moves. What a busy double-track D&H eastern main has to do with a narrow gauge road in the High Rockies is a riddle to me, as said i am a bit short sighted. Of course by tunneling most of the tracks the single track appearance could be emphasized. A so well known prototype is hard to model without raising eyebrows when your aims are so far off the reality. How to work this in? Back to the trackplan. I have drawn the tracks as a double track. Of course the tracks can be separated, to give the impression of a very long single track main, going around twice. Using the crossing is the key. When you add passing-sidings to that main you could have a dispatchers paradise. When envisioning your plan as a double tracked main, these passing siding are helpful for switching purposes. Have fun at the drawing board and show us a bit more then a few lines. Paul
Folks, don't take my RGS loop to literately, I was just referencing it to try to help describe a Box Canyon look I am thinking about for the dead-end aisle. I have no issues with the questions Stein is asking as I think his questions are helping me better describe my goal and thus help others help me too. Nothing of this layout is based on Proto but pulling concepts from around the area and merging them. I will get back to the left side in a bit as that is about as far as I have heavily thought through so far...
West/Top Wall - Level #1 OK, here are a couple of diagrams show both Track #1 (GREEN) and Track #2 (BLUE). This first shows all the track in this section and the second is how I think the hidden track might look. Note the Helix is just an option to get between levels and thus Track #1 and Track #2 would turn behind the door to allow a train to stay on this level. If it's better to have the Outer Helix be the downward and the Inner be the Upward I might have to adjust things a bit but that is exactly the advise I am looking for!!! I've zoomed in a bit so it's easier to see what tracks are at what elevation with respect to each other. In this first view you can see the four tracks heading down the left wall but the two closest to the wall will be hidden. Allot of the Top wall will also be hidden so the "Track Heavy" look in this view should lighten up in the next diagram... Here is the Hidden Track view of above. There is track at three (3) elevations with Track #1 (GREEN) being the lowest near the edge of the benchwork. About 2.5" above that is the Double-Slip where Track #1(Green) and Track #2 (Blue) can be combined for a single train to use both tracks as a larger loop within this level. Finally Track #2 (Blue) closest to the wall is higher yet and the most visible in this section. The "Access" hole would be 100% behind a View Block / Scenery and a panel behind the door could also be removed for access too. After that, access to remaining hidden track would be from below
Fair question... My D&H collection has been built over allot of years and the power is all DC based engines. Right now I don't want to put in the time or $$$ to convert them given the way the layout is intended to operate. With that said when I get to the wiring of the layout I will ask questions related to DCC vs. DC in case I change my mind. But, for now it's important for the layout to have 4 to 5 separate DC zones for my current roster to operate in. Those DC zones are being designated in the proposed layout via color as in Track #1 being GREEN and Track #2 in BLUE. The second level will have Track #3 and Track #4. If I can support a Track #5 (doubtful) it would likely be on it's own level. If I get the ROW extension to the right of the Fireplace I see that as just extension to put in a City Scene on one level and a Freight Yard / Passenger Terminal area on the other but that ROW is still not approved. This is also why I have the Helix where it is so if that ROW gets approved then the Train Room design remains as planned and just the Helix moves...
Track #1 / #2 - Box Canyon OK, here is as far as I have put any serious thought into the Level #1 and hopefully these next two diagrams show the concept I am hoping for down the dead-end aisle. Track #1 (GREEN) and Track #2 (BLUE) head Up/Down the South Wall. Track #2 reaches the end of the Box Canyon and then makes a 180 turn back up the other side while Track #1 pass into a tunnel; that might represent the look along the Moffat Route where a trestle passes over a tunnel. At this point the 4 tracks (2 Hidden) along the South wall separate with two appearing on the far side of the View Block and two travel back up the edge of the Box Canyon. Note the hidden portion of Track #1 from the South wall is the track that appears on the opposite side of the Canyon and the hidden potion of Track #2 from the South wall is the track that appears on the opposite side of the View Block. Here is how it might look with the Hidden Tracks not showing... Does this help explain my current thoughts for the South Wall?
Stuck OK, before I step back to take a serious look at what folks have offered as suggestions on various forums, this is the point I'm a bit stuck... One item for a Multi-Level layout, what is the best way to support the Upper Desk(s) while wanting to maintain a L-Girder design throughout. What I would like to avoid is having any outside supports that blocks the view of the mainline so how does one support Level #2+ from within. I assume I will need some support posts in the middle that will need to be considered in the design plus I plan to pull in the electrical for lighting from the ceiling light which is basically dead center in the room... :question:
Alternative from Paul I have this topic running parallel on a few forums to get as much input from different folks as possible. On another forum Paul, who lives just outside Amsterdam, took so time to create the below alternative (THANK YOU Paul!) that I wanted to share it here too as I am seriously looking at his approach to the space and Helix design. I would likely alter the scenery to be more Rocky Mountain rouged but I truly like the track layout concept. Questions: How would one support another level above this with highly similar bench-work, would there be sturdy support poles within the View Block that I could hand L-Girders off of every 16" or so? There are folks that have suggested the Outer Helix should be used for Down where I thought it would be better for upward travel. What are folks thoughts on directions of travel in a double helic?
My guess is you'll become bored with this layout very quickly. Watching the trains go round and round gets old fast. Try building with at least one staging yard, so you can run different trains.
Hi Raton, the design was driven by wishes of Darren. Not (quite) visible however on this small rendering of my original drawing are the turnouts in tunnel CC. Since this tunnel is 10 ft long and for a large part not covered by scenery, it would be a great place for a staging area. I hinted at it in the text that accompanied the drawing. The helix area is doing double duty this way; of course other solutions are possible too. BTW the layout can be run as one very long main. Turning the train for its travel back to the helix and a second desk could be done by using a reversing connection or by using Reetlands yard as a terminal. Working out the passing sidings and adding spurs and industries are not yet of large importance; staging however is. Most important right now seems to me if the radius, vertical clearance and grades, especially in the helix can support the kind of trains Darren would like to run. Paul
Raton, Paul is working from Specs he got from me and I can not say THANK YOU enough for the time / effort he has put into this. You might have missed that this is a planned Multi-Level layout and this is just a possible track plan for one of those levels. Also, there is a chance the ROW will get extended into the Family Room and that is where I hope to put in a serious Freight Yard / Passenger Terminal facility where my entire roster could be ready to switch into operation. Right now I need to prove to myself and the wife that a nice looking layout can be achieved in the Train Room based on the vision I am looking for. If I get the extension I also hope the soften the grade in the helix by going more oval then circle but for now I'm working on concepts based on current ROW restrictions.
Beware of too much hidden track. Not only because when things go wrong in there it's a big mess, but you are removing precious right-of-way from being seen. Having eyes-on-train for almost the entire layout is a very satisfying experience; listening for it to emerge from some long long tunnel or covered multi-lap helix is death by boredom.
Concept #1 / Level #1 OK, after taking in feedback from folks across various forums, I've redone my diagrams for Concept #1 / Level #1 with the first noticeable change allowing the door from the Family Room to the Train Room to open ~30 degrees wider by moving the Return Loops underneath the Helix rather then being right behind the door...
Concept #1 / Level #1 The next noticeable change is in the potential bench-work by nearly eliminating the back 24" narrow aisle and a wider top aisle. In the old design I would have rounded off the corners (I too have enough bruises) but note the wider sweeping line of the edges to the center island. This concept now has close to 30"+ aisle all the way around. I have not given up on my "Canyon" but there has been changes there I will get to in another diagram.
With the bench-work adjustments here is what Track #1 might look like with the Return Loop underneath the Helix. I also show where I believe the Double Slip would need to be for this design. I have made a few track sections BROWN where potential Bridges / Trestles would be placed. Track #1 would be the LOWER Track line so this conceptual design would stack upward from here as shown below. If I do find I need to widen the little nook area you can see that I could easily add some straight track below it to get a bit more space by reducing the aisle on the right side that amount. I would like to keep the right aisle at 36" but I might find I have to cheat the space down a few inches to say 33" or 30" I did look to put in an optional Reverse Loop track but the grade was too steep. It's not critical to have one in the design based on how I plan to use the layout. If I get the extra ROW space in the Family Room, I can look to put a Reverse Loop there for either Track #1 and/or Track #2.
