I just had a thought that is now troubling me, so I thought I would bring it to the sage folks on the Forum !! As you all know, I have decided (finally ) to go DCC. Now, aside from an old Atlas RS-1, my other engines were pretty darn inexpensive models when I purchased them (20 to 30 bucks each!). Now my question is, is it worth putting a 60 to 70 dollar decoder in an engine that is a) over ten years old b)was cheaper than the cost of the decoder? They all run well (or did ten years ago !!) and if I can keep them running I would like to, but there is an economic equation here that just isn't adding up ! Happy Modeling!! JOhn ------------------ The Santa Fe and Southwestern, Chief of the Southwest!!
John, most decoders only run around $40-50 in N scale, and they are constantly getting cheaper. You may have to do a review of your motive power, and see what is worth keeping after you test run them. Yes, it does seem a little odd to pay as much for a decoder as for a loco, but that's the way it is. ------------------ Corey Lynch Pres - Rensselaer Model RR Society, NEB&W RR http://www.rpi.edu/~lynchc/Railfanning/railfanning.htm - My Site http://www.union.rpi.edu/railroad/ - NEB&W
Corey, It is probably because I am coming from HO scale into N . In HO the decoder to engine cost seems a bit more realistic (especially if using N scale decoders in small steam engines as I had planned to do). If it makes run as well as everyone says, then I'll bite the bullet !! Happy Modeling!! JOhn ------------------ The Santa Fe and Southwestern, Chief of the Southwest!!
Well, what is wrong with using an "N" decoder in an "HO" locomotive? And, is there a difference between a decoder used to run a steamer, and one used to run a diesel? I run two, three and four steamers on my trains for years and there weren't decoders then. I run alone, so unless I'm double heading a train, there is no advantage in running two in different directions to me. I have even run a Revel F-7 doubleheaded with a 4-8-4 with no problems. I still don't understand the expense of DCC as an advantage over the more dependable DC. Leap on me, I'll listen! ------------------ Watash #982
Watash,The biggest advantage to DCC I can find is if and or when you want to run multiple trains or need to make your different brand and or type of locos run at a matching speed. I don't have DCC at home yet,but after running my ATLAS GP-38 on the club layout I gaurentee I will have it.By the way my home layout is in Nscale. ------------------ Catt!#118 - A freelancer to the very end
John, I`ve found something for you at Tony`s Trains XChange Digitrax DZ 121 1.0 Amp (1.5 Amps Peak) Mobile Decoder for long term reliability, 0.38"x0.5"x0.18" Tiny Footprint fits most Z scale diesels. Powerful enough for N & HO scale installations; 2 Regular Function Leads (Can be used for directional lighting or other independent functions); Two and four digit addressing & decoder assisted consisting; V-Start,V-Mid & V-Max Available; features load compensated performance. List $44.95 TTX $35.95 4 @ $32.95 Railfan [This message has been edited by rail_fan (edited 12 January 2001).]
Great prices if you can get it. Here in Canada it will cost me around $65.00 plus 15% in taxes to get a decoder that will fit in the tender of an N gauge loco. I can't take advantage of good US prices because customs and taxes added here make it even more expensive. ------------------ Robin member #35 Maberly and Tayside
John, I guess the question is what do you want to do with your locos? If they are all for your home layout, and your layout will be DCC, you will probably find yourself unhappy unless your fleet is decoder equipped. If you also belong to a club, it may be an advantage to keep some non-decoder locos for running on the club layout. Having taken the plunge, I understand that it is hard to swallow the expense. I have decided to thin my loco fleet in order to gain money for decoder purchases. No, it does not seem reasonable that the decoder price should exceed the loco price. However, you can find good decoders for as little as $20 on eBay and other places (especially if they are not PnP). If your locos run very well and you are 100% satisfied with them, you will probably want to convert them to DCC. If you are having any "doubts", it might be time to upgrade to DCC ready or DCC equipped models! Harold ------------------ Harold Hodnett Fan of NS, CSX, and their predecessors! Coming soon: The North Carolina Railfan Web Site http://www.trainweb.org/ncrail/
Thanks guys!! I will check into the various resources you have mentioned. I am miles away from purchasing a system, in fact my trackwork is'nt even down yet!! Just thinking ahead. I guess if I were to upgrade the locos I have, aside from the Atlas RS-1, it would be for nostalga sake...I've had them a long time and would like to see them in the fleet just because they are long time friends! Happy Modeling! John ------------------ The Santa Fe and Southwestern, Chief of the Southwest!!
Lenz has released the 77XF .5amp Micro DCC Decoder. It's approximately .5"x.5" and price seems to be around the $24.95 mark. Gary. ------------------ Gary A. Rose The Unofficial TC&W page TrainBoard Moderator and Member No.377 N to the Nth degree!
Well i have alot of engines and a few are older than 10 years. My Athern ones. i'm in the process of rebuilding and by the time i start laying track i will probably have expanded my locos by a few. I've decided to sell my older locos and go with the new. As to price i'm paying between 25 and $30 for most decoders and thats Canadian ( ------------------ === Railery === sites.netscape.net/agsgreg Home of the Shadow Mountain Ry
Tell me what answer you want to hear and I will give you that one. Either: Your engines are precious because they have history, have worked for you, and do the job, so they are certainly worth decoding. Or: No! It isn't worth putting decoders in cheaper engines. I think you should go out and buy some new ones. Which answer do you want to hear? Lol
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by rsn48: Tell me what answer you want to hear and I will give you that one. Either: Your engines are precious because they have history, have worked for you, and do the job, so they are certainly worth decoding. Or: No! It isn't worth putting decoders in cheaper engines. I think you should go out and buy some new ones. Which answer do you want to hear? Lol<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Answer A Please!! Happy Modeling!! John ------------------ The Santa Fe and Southwestern, Chief of the Southwest!!
You already own engines that run well -- of course you should give them brains (how would the scarecrow feel?) Once you convert to DCC you're not going back -- it's such a hassle getting all the DCC engines off the track to switch it all to DC to run one of the"old" ones. I too have several engines waiting in the workshop cabinets for their turn on the operating table. It will take a while, but it's worth it -- especially as I've found that trains that run well on DC run even better with DCC, especially at low speeds, and you have control over throttle response and top speed (and you can add sound!!) Besides, don't worry about the cost, the ones you own are yours, the money is gone. You're just debating spending more money on them, in this case "good money after good" -- all positives!
Catt, I have doubleheaded a Bachmann 4-8-4 with a Revel F-7 behind it, and pulled the train around the layout several trips with no problems I could see, nor expected. Same track, one power pack. I have also had a 4-8-8-4, 2-8-8-0 and a 4-8-4 all coupled together pullin cars up a 1.5% making several trips up and down, with no problems. These engines ran several minutes at a time. I am remembering the layout I had under a house where my two mainlines ran around the inside of the foundation with 60" curves at the four corners. At scale 30 mph it took probably 15 minutes or more to make the trip. The foundation was 28 x 36 feet where I had this track. These engines still run alright. With those facts in mind, my question is this: I have been advised to re-motor these engines for two reasons. (1.) DCC will burn up my open frame Pittman DC motor windings pulling them together the way I do. (2.) I HAVE to have DCC inorder to couple all three engines together the way I do so I can match speed, and not burn up one of the motors. There was no such thing as DCC in 1953 when I ran this layout for 12 years. Now, what is DCC going to do to my present motors? I don't run two different trains in different directions, nor different speeds. ------------------ Watash #982
Watash i know i'm jumping in here late, but an advantage of DCC is that nowadays not all models run the same. Using speed steps you can modify the power curves and end up with a fleet that runs the same. A great example of a model that doesn't match anything is the slow P2K SD60. I don't know anything about the Pittman motors so i'll stay away from that...
I think DCC is even more of a nessesity in N scale cause you can then use the full arc of your throttle without going 200 smph. I forgot the name of the feature on the decoders but it has to do with something with restricting the voltage at a given throttle setting.
Watash, here's a good reason for DCC. I've got a 1,914 foot grade[ho scale] it runs about 2.5% at the start and levels off to 1.3% about 2/3's the way up near a siding. I use a pusher to the siding, electric uncouple it on the fly it pulls off onto the siding and the rest of the train continues on. I don't combine the locos as a consist or double header, I use speed steps to match the throttles, but I need another engineer to run the pusher, just like the real thing! ------------------ When in doubt, empty your magazine. Member #33
I think that's the difference Chris, I run alone, and have not attempted to make a flying uncouple, even back when I used to run with other people running at the same time. I have always had blocks and circuitry that would allow single master control, with the option of individual control up to four. When I had to move to Dallas, life prevented me from having that big a layout since, and I just got used to running alone. I have saved rolling stock, some hand made that was my dad's, some mine, and run them with such factory ready mades, that there are only two or three engines I still want. I saved supplies and have spent less than $200.00 on this last layout, I have everything on hand. I am certainly not impressed with a ready to run out of the box, as much as I am with one someone has made from a kit, or built from scratch. It is the craftsmanship I think. Of all the so called "Brass" engines I have seen RUN, I am even less than impressed. My father was a perfectionist, his work not only looked good, it also had to perform well too. I grew up with that, so although the Brass looks great most of the time, when I have paid $1,250.00 for only one engine, I become irate when I see it go wobbling down the track because the drivers are out of concentricity! I was lucky to be able to palm it off on one of the loud mouths at the club. I may be hard bitten, but my past compliments reflect my admiration for the fellows who have made or improoved our hobby. I have little in common with blustery braggarts who only collect for profit, or for show off appeal. If it don't run well, its a paper weight to me, including couplers. I have lived too long I guess, I was advised by a hobbyshop owner that all the hype and the unneccessarily high prices are preventing a lot of would be train hobbists from being able to enjoy our hobby. Cars, planes, & boats, are all less expensive generally than train equipment offered today. I have to agree with that statement. For a big profit, we have been educated to believe we have to have the latest and greatest, or we can not have fun. I say, have fun with what you can afford, and keep some money for the future. What are you going to do with all the DCC equipment, when Radio Control begins to take the market? Gr-r-r-r! ------------------ Watash #982
Already happened Watash, in conjunction with DCC. At least Digitrax (IR and Radio) and North Coast (Radio) have wireless throttles and reciever stations that can be used with their DCC system. ------------------ Corey Lynch Pres - Rensselaer Model RR Society, NEB&W RR http://www.rpi.edu/~lynchc/Railfanning/railfanning.htm - My Site http://www.union.rpi.edu/railroad/ - NEB&W
