How many of you out there find the general state of passenger rail service in America to be sad. Aside from Amtrack and the local metropolitan services, are there really any intercity rail services? With fuel prices rising the way they are this country will eventually have to take a firmer stance on mass transit, specifically high speed intercity services. Chime in and let me know what you think. Steve
AMTRAK is the only intercity public rail passenger service available in the USA, and it will remain so until we, as a spoiled population give up two major self-serving life styles ... 1) Our love affair with the Automobile and the personal Gratification it provides us! 2) Our absolute need for instant gratification in arriving at destinations within as few hours as possible, whether for pleasure or business travel, and regardless of the distance! Until we finally accept that the above two items are inefficient, expensive, and a total waste of limited resources, and start electing politicians who believe the same, we will be stuck with only AMTRAK, a government controlled and underfunded hobby, mostly used by a large number of nostalgic fans, myself included! Sorry about the soapbox, but I live in the second largest metropolitan area in Mississippi, and we do not even have meaningful bus service.
To a European, the lack of meaningful passenger rail services in the US is very noticable. Here in England and in most of mainland europe, we have trains every few minutes, many do not make a profit, but the alternatives would be unthinkable! The roads are congested enough already. The passenger train is seen here as a public service much more than the US, although there is pressure to be self funding wherever possible. Distances between major population centers are quite different from the USA, but I think the time is right in America for some serious thinking on intercity high speed lines. Give railroad infrastructure the same funding as highways and you may just get some decent rail passenger seervices.
Alan, I agree with your observation of government funding and support for the railroad industry whole-heartedly. Here in the "Colonies", our taxes provide 100% of the funding for interstate highways, multi-lane secondary roads, and even country lanes for the unlimited use of the truck and bus industries. Our taxes provide the majority of funding for every airport in America, allowing any/all private and commercial aircraft to use those facilities after paying minimum, if any, landing and parking charges. Yet, we Americans expect our railroad industry to be 100% self-supporting, and then have the audacity to levy a plethora of taxes on them to support unrelated local, regional, and federal services and entitlements. We even are upset that AMTRAK has not and is not making a profit! Then, we as Fans criticize "Them", the various levels of government officials and agencies for their lack of support of the railroad industry. Hey, we are "Them"! As Pogo (Walt Kelly) said about 50 years ago, "We have met the Enemy, and He is US!". We deserve every elected official that we have ever voted for, and the policies that "They" subsequently enacted.
In Chicago we have a publicly funded mass transit system for the 6 county "collar" area to Chicago known as the RTA (Regional Transportation Authority)whose governing board is politically appointed(by the governor of the state and the mayor of the city. The operation divisions are PACE(the bus division providing interurban and city operation for smaller cities)METRA (the commuter rail operation) and the CTA(Chicago Transit Authority) providing bus/rail service to the city of Chicago and surface routes to and through several bordering suburbs. The RTA/METRA has deep pockets and is in the process of buying several hundred new double-decker rail cars to replace equipment on several rail lines, some cars still operating are 50 + years old(although most have been through many subsequent rebuildings. We are fortunate here for our passenger rail, and it is expanding. We also have a large AMTRAK presence. Inter-city passenger rail is in dire straits and our politicians can't seem to understand the correlation between higher fuel prices and increased auto/truck/airplane useage. But then again, dont we all have the finest politicians money can buy?
<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Alan: Give railroad infrastructure the same funding as highways and you may just get some decent rail passenger seervices.<hr></blockquote> That's the answer right there. More rail means less cars and less cars mean less money to the politicians. The Railroads didn't want public funding for fear of too much government regulations. Now they have the regulations but not the money. The car manufactures understood it better. Pay off the politicians and you will get your roads for free and sell many cars.
I think it's safe to say that passenger rail services in US and Canada are in a deplorable state, using coaches that are almost 50 years old, VIA still runs first-generation power, F-units and RDCs.
Prohibit states and local governments (schools included) from placing property taxes on any passenger railroad (should be done for all common carrier railroads). Pay for railroad signal systems. Airlines don't pay for air controllers. In short, put all transportation systems on the same economic basis: equal subsidies (if any), equal tax burdens (if any), equal legal burdens. Regretably, the judiciary does not apply notions of equal protection in economic matters. Somehow the judges seem to say that members of Congress are better at that task than judges. Their seeming modesty is bizarre. If people in suburbs resist more airport and highway construction under the NIMBY principle, perhaps resulting congestion will send more people to trains. The experience in Los Angeles and the Altamont Commuter Express give us hope.
Hank, I wish I had seen your 26 August reply before today. You are absolutely RIGHT ON!! We need to slow down and smell the roses (or deisel fuel) in this country, and park those SUVs. Our Gummint seems to have forgotten that the railroads built this country. The airlines sure didn't, nor did the interstate highway system, conceived by Dwight D. Eisenhower. Hey, I made my living off airplanes, but looking at what we need right now in this country, rails look good. Light rail looks real good. Why did all the existing light rail get torn up, as in Los Angeles? Could it be that the tire and gasoline companies had anything to do with that? Naaaaaaah. The day will come that the SUV owners will demand that rail systems be built to serve them.
Just been reading about the LA Metrolink, in Trains magazine. Seems that system is going places, so maybe things will gradually turn around in favour of rail? We all hope so.
Fitz, regards your comments about the loss of local and interurban rail, e.g. Pacific Electric. If I remember correctly, in the very early days of BART "dreaming", Mayor Allioto(sp?) of San Francisco commissioned a study to determine why The Key System had failed. The Study found that in the 30's, the Key had been purchased by a holding company. By really digging, the Study ultimately found that the holding company was created and owned by Executives of General Motors, Standard Oil, and Firestone Tire!!! The holding company subsequently and insidiously siphoned off all operating and maintenance funds from the Key, degrading service over the next 20 years until the public refused to ride. The City government then created a bus system to provide public transportation ... busses that were made by GM, burned ESSO fuel, and ran on Firestone tires! The conspiracy that killed the Key System is the same type of conspiracy that has lobbied Congress into providing government funded roads, government funded airports, government employed air controllers, etc. On the other hand, the same Congress, with the support of the same lobby, requires that the railroads purchase and maintain their own right-of-way, install and maintain their own roadbed and track, install and maintain their own signalling and protection devices. Then Congress requires that the railroads pay Federal, State, and Local taxes on their land and capital equipment. Equality? I don't think so! [ 08 September 2001: Message edited by: Hank Coolidge ]</p>
One more variable has to be factored in before rail wil be viable. And that is a workable schedule, where trains are not permitted to be late ( by late I mean more than 20 minutes or so). I was embarrassed one year, when Dane and I followed a Via that left, then returned to Toronto over 24 hours late. Can you imagine the passengers on it and what they were experiencing? What happened is that Via put together a train that was too long, and should have been broken in half and run as two, but some stupid regulation wouldn't permit that. Servicing this mamooth train became a problem, where it had to be broken in two, and serviced in two parts. Normally it would leave Vancouver around 5:30 PM, but it didn't leave until 4:00 AM. What is even worse, the coach passengers weren't allowed into their seats unti 3:30 AM. I wonder how many of those passengers will ride a train again?
First of all, that train my rsn48 mentioned was almost 36 hours late, even worse! If there was to be a 'good' system of passenger rail put into North America there would have to be a 50 year 200 billion dollar programme put into place. There is not even a large enough rail infrastructure for them to run freight trains, let alone run more passenger trains! I see a few major things needing to be done before we could ven think about having a good passenger rail network a) Get some passenger cars that are more fitted for commuters, long hual, or tourists. Look at the route and amke a decision. One of BCRs runs does all three of those things so the equipment is not well suited for any of them. b) Get major, major, major funding from every state and province (yes, Canada is a place too ) in N.A. to get a good service going. Washington state is forging ahead to get another set of Talgo Cascades up to Vancouver, and for some reason the poliaticians here keep on refusing it to save about, oh, $500 Canadian. c) Reliable equipment! Other than those <big>GREAT</big> double decker commuter cars that some very SMART person designed over at bommardier, all the equipment in North America is pretty dumpy. I have never been in a Superliner, but I have heard they aren't that great (more too maint. rather the actual car), the Viewliners are nice, could be better kept up, the Cascades are good but have wheel problems (and I have heard of a new brake problem??), the old CCF cars BC Rail, Via (only 4), and a few other Canadian roads use are getting old. Good cars, just too old. Then there are Via Rail's good old streamlined "Canadian" cars. They were doing good until about 2 or 3 years ago. Now there has to be serious looks at new equipment (Via has started to look apparently, now that they have cash in hand). d) The hardest, but almost the most important would be too get a passenger only rail line (i.e. Tracks for PASS. ONLY). North American RRs are clogged. But I can't see a major intercity network ever being established as, well, the North American mentallity for RRs is that they are for freight and dinner trains. Maybe the occasional commuter train too, thats IT! Happy Railroading! Dane
Well, I finally rde the Acela- which gives me hope. From Washington DC to New Haven CT it was smooth enough starting that I had to watch out the windows to see when we were leaving the station! Remarkably quick, generally smooth-riding, queit and clean. On the other hand, New Haven saw us switch from a single Acela locomotive to four diesels (two F40, two P2-40s). Communication errors kept us waiting there for almost an hour and we wound up arriving in Boston later still. Pity- because that eroded the confidence instilled by the start of the journey. Amtrak did well, this week. I was stranded in DC, as were many (this was Wednesday); rumour tells me that Amtrak ran extra trains to take up the slack that the grounded airlines left. They did a remarkable job.
