After initial testing on both the Joint Line and the Moffat Road, can anybody please tell me if these three locomotives (#4001-4003)worked in regular freight service, on what route, and on what kind of trains, before they were hived off to the Southern Pacific. I have tried checking through various books and web sites, but with no success. I am now hoping that you Rio Grande specialists can help me You havn't let me down yet. Ron Carlisle. Rio Grande - Main Line Thru the Rockies.
Hey Ron. Why do you always ask the hard ones . I will do this in three posts and more if I get additional information. BTW, the shortest and probably best reply is from a friend in AU. "A dismal failure I believe." Horsepower: 4000 Wheel Arrangement: C-C Weight: 330327# Tractive Effort: 104080# DRGW Class: DE C-C 104, AKA ML-4 Builder: Krauss-Maffei Final Road# 4001 Builder# 18697 Purchased: 6/1961 Retired: 2/6/1964 Sold to SP, 11/1965, # 9021 Renumbered to # 9103 Retired: 12/31/1967, scrapped Final Road# 4002 Builder# 18697 Purchased: 6/1961 Retired: 2/6/1964 Sold to SP, 11/1965, # 9022 Renumbered to # 9104 Retired: 12/31/1967, scrapped Final Road# 4003 Builder# 18697 Purchased: 6/1961 Retired: 2/6/1964 Sold to SP, 11/1965, # 9023 Renumbered to # 9105 Retired: 12/31/1967, scrapped ------------------ Jim Harrawood #85 Utah Rails D&RGW---Main Line Thru The Rockies
During the days when the old "Mile Hi "club was still meeting in Denver, several members were old D&RGW shop men of different crafts, after a Rio Grande slide program the talk centered around the KMs .The big problems: engines always starved for air in the tunnels if not the lead unit, Hence lots of work on the air ducts and engine cooling systems(From the sheetmetal workers) The Boilermakers(Plumbing) they were forever changing out fittings on the Many Hydraulic systems, lots of "blown joints" hoses, there was lots of work done to replace many of the non drive hydro systems.The Electrician did work on changhing the cab control systems from hydro to electric(the throttle and related controls) for ease of operation and for MUing with other power.The brake systems had lots of work done on them, lots of freezing problems , also other control lines had freezing problems. The crews loved them or hated them, many feared that the big drive u joint right under the cab floor would fail and come flying up into the cab, lots of wheel slip when starting on a grade, that would cause for a very bumpy ride. One retired engineer said that when they were all 3 running and if you could hold the main they wern't bad, he also stated that the German engineers couldn't belive the way that the US railroads ran their power for 45 days without shut down,he said that in Germany in the early 1960s a loco goes out for about 8 hours of work and then is shut down for cleaning and service.The Dyno car seemed to always go with what ever KM units were out on the road,in the early years lots of testing and crews from both the factory and the D&RGW lived aboard, later the joke was that the Dyno car was "full of spare hoses and fuses"By the time the units were sold to the SP most of the problems had been worked out.But in the eyes of the railroad the units were a failure, to much down time, to much shop crew expense and the GP30s and F7s were moving the freight with very little problems and new GP35s were on the way so it was good buy to the KMs. ------------------ Jim Harrawood #85 Utah Rails D&RGW---Main Line Thru The Rockies
I vaguely recall some stories about these units. IF I remember correctly, they were actually more than the Rio Grande bargained for, with more TE than anything else on the railroad then, which translated into pulled drawbars in the mountains. They also had troubles with the hydraulics in winter and didn't have people experienced in heavy-duty hydraulics to maintain them. Finally, while as I remember they weren't outrageously maintenance-intensive, there were enough troubles with them that it was too expensive to keep parts for three they had and they were too troublesome to justify getting more. They couldn't have been too bad since they weren't scrapped, but sold to SP (of course some might say that was tantamount to the same thing!). ------------------ Jim Harrawood #85 Utah Rails D&RGW---Main Line Thru The Rockies
Jim, Thanks a lot for all that information. Judging by what you said, the couple of photographs that I have seen, must be a bit of a rarity, especially one of all three units running west of Glenwood Springs. With reference to "a dismal failure" thats sounds like most of the first phase diesels that were tried out on this side of the pond. Mind you with something like 10-15 different manufacturers, that's not suprising. At least the U.S. only had five or six. It took them until the late 1990s to finally sort themselves out - By buying American. Tunnel88. All the pictures that I have seen have shown the locos with a very clear exhaust. ------------------ Ron Carlisle
Jim, In case you are wondering why the second degree with difficult questions, I like to model the Rio Grande, and was wondering whether it would have been possible to Scratch build a couple of these diesels However my wife came up with the comment that if I did, I had better not complete them, but leave bits lying around it and put lots of railway mechanics and such like. And I would also have to build a model of the Burnham Shops to exhibit them. Smart Alec female. I knew I should'nt have got her interested in model railroads. But again Jim thanks for all of your help. ------------------ Ron Carlisle Rio Grande Main Line Thru the Rockies
The main problem with the ML-4's and modeling is the proper power trucks. This was hashed out of the DRGW e-mail lise a while back dealing with the Rivarossi drive. Nothing was found that came close to the wheelbase and spacing. If you could build your own, not that hard, you still have to deal with the side frames, not that easy. There were brass ones built, but with poor drive trains. ------------------ Jim Harrawood #85 Utah Rails D&RGW---Main Line Thru The Rockies
Hey Ron, Back to your original question. I got a little off track. When they did their first break in runs they ran down the joint line, then they ran on the Moffat Line , Denver to SaltLake. They were used in General Freight service. I don't know if they ever ran on Tenn. Pass, Never heard of any trips or have seen any pictures... I did here from railfan Neil Miller, that when the 2 KMs went to the NYC, the single unit went to Leadville(came down form Minturn) and was tested against either GP-9s or SD-9s. ------------ ------------------ Jim Harrawood #85 Utah Rails D&RGW---Main Line Thru The Rockies
Hey Jim, Thanks for all of the information. I happened to look in an old Caboose Hobbies Brass model catalogue yesterday, and after seeing the price for just one locomotive, I think I will give them a miss. But again thanks for all of your help. Sorry for the delay in answering, but shift work does not help matters ------------------ Ron Carlisle Rio Grande Main Line Thru the Rockies
