This query is regarding my recent experiences with the Loksound V5 micro and nano decoders. Over the past several months I have experienced a disturbing failure trend of the aforementioned NIB decoders. 3 loksound micros and 1 Nano. The nano is from the first run here in the US as I acquired it Jan 2022 but did not install it till just a few weeks back. Here is what I am witnessing: initial power up is done on a test track with the lokprogrammer. I startup the application then when prompted tell said program to read and use the decoder settings. Read works as expected with the appropriate decoder interface given and then I go to the "Driver's cab" tab, test functionality including sound, light functions and run back and forth on the track enough to see how it operates from creep to mid speed. These tests are always all good but it is subsequent updates I perform be it function mapping, address change or anything else where when the software attempts to connect, it fails and I am totally bricked up and nothing including a factory reset does anything but return "incompatible decoder" errors. Sometimes before things go south I can get the address updated with the typical firmware update first subsequent updates such as fine tuning the motor control and the decoder bricks up. Cannot read or write individual CVs much less anything else. I've installed over 80 ESU decoders on my existing DC fleet starting 5 years ago and up until now every single one has been problem free. Over 60 of those have been with the Micro sound decoder and another 8 or so with the nano. First failure I experienced was a couple months ago was a new Scaletrains loco (2023 release) with the Loksound micro dcc. Initially it ran, was able to update the address, run again and when I started tuning the motor it went poop on me. I contacted Scaletrains explaining the problem and how I swapped out with a Lokpilot which got the loco back up and running. They came back telling me there was nothing I could do, this is a known issue caused by faulty memory blocks and to send the decoder to them for exchange. The replacement decoder seems to be working fine so far. I did have to upload the sound files and adjust all the function settings to match the factory program so the multiple updates I made went through without issue. I also ran the loco for a couple of hours so it seems to be a good test of the replacement decoder. A few weeks later I was adding sound to another loco using a Loksound Nano I'd purchased back in Jan 2022. Same thing again, worked fine on initial fire-up and got the sound file loaded but when I started tuning/adjusting functions and uploading the changes it bricked up on me. This is currently in the mail to ESU for repair. I did have a spare nano and was able to get everything working with that so definitely wasn't a wiring/installation issue on my end. Today I just received two new factory locos (Aug 2023 release) with micro Loksound boards and both failed when attempting to update. One I was able to update the firmware and address but when I tried to connect to update the motor settings it failed. Other one I couldn't even get to updating the address which is always the first thing I do after verifying it runs from the factory. Both ran fine again after installing my test Lokpilot decoder. I noticed though with these last two and the nano that the boards were very warm to the to touch just after sitting on the energized track but I only noticed/checked for excessive heat after they had failed. I have a thermal camera and found a rectifier diode midway on the board opposite side of the next18 plug was 200 degrees and still rising after only about 10 seconds of being energized. I can say with all the installs I've done though that the decoders were at best only slightly warm after some time of running so this heat issue seems to be a symptom of the failed boards only. I'm a bit bummed at this point because up till now I have been super happy with ESU products and therefore heavily invested in them. Perhaps this is an issue where component suppliers changed due to challenges post pandemic? I do recall there for a while getting these boards was a bit of problem with many retailers being sold out. Everything I've had issues with is recent production with the oldest release being that nano from 2022. Sorry for the long write-up but I am trying to be as descriptive as I can be to help others diagnose or compare notes. I'd also be interested to find out if any of you have experienced similar issues and whether or not they support my initial hypothesis. I'll be sure to update with the results of these last 3 decoders as they are resolved.
so bottom line no new buying esu decoders until they get there fingers out of there you know whats . i have one in one loco but its been working just fine an dandy. been real liable loco.
I've done a dozen or more Lokpilot installs in the last year and all of those have been trouble free so that leads me to think this is likely an issue only with sound decoders. Scaletrains was a model for customer support and if these other 3 issues I mentioned previously go that same way then little reason to get too upset. Crap happens... it's how it's dealt with and the end result that makes all the difference. It is an annoyance for sure but not critical in the grand scheme of life One thing though is any of us who might be stockpiling decoders would be advised to test them and ensure they can handle at a minimum address updates before they go out of warranty.
Thanks for the info. I've never looked how long is the warranty? I'm only on about my 4th sound install and this last one is a LokSound 5 Nano (wired) that so far has been fine but don't have much run time on it yet. I did get a 5 Micro for an E9 that had to go back to SBS. Working fine so far but not a lot of time on it either. Sumner
I sympathize with your frustration. I have installed over 100 ESU sound decoders, mostly KATO loco specific boards and my failure rate was one. The micro boards with the next18 plug; I've had some issues with a few - exactly like you. Be very careful with those decoders in the ScaleTrains locos as the boards are a little too wide for the loco shell. I use kapton tape and a foam wedge to keep those boards from coming loose from the motherboard when re-installing the shell (they are mounted upside down). Nothing worse than putting the shell back on, screwing the couplers back on to the frame and then try and run the loco only to find out that there is no response from the decoder..... because it partially pulled out of the socket.. Number boards are lit up as they don't operate through the decoder - N scale. I really have not had any of the ESU decoders fail after the initial install and setup. It's always when initially doing the install and trying to change address, update firmware or mapping changes where I've had issues. Resetting sometimes works; the first time and sometimes NOT. It's like the programming gets screwed up for no apparent reason and they won't write a reset or take an address change....after you spend 30 minutes writing a sound file. I really like the ESU decoders, both sound and non-sound. Motor control and functions is amazing. ESU documentation sucks and translation from German to English has mistakes in some printed settings. Tech support is (was) difficult to get a hold of; maybe with some of the recent changes, it will be better. Side note: I use Digitrax for my layout and I have had some isolated issues where, all of a sudden, I lost control of a loco consist with ESU sound decoders. I re-input the address in the throttle and NOTHING. I pull the lead loco and test it on the LOK programming track - no issue! I do a complete reset of my command station and the loco responds normally. I've not had this with any other decoder manufacturer and fortunately this does not happen frequently. Brian
Thanks Bryan. Glad it's not just me. Most of my sound installs were micro's next 18 with maybe a dozen being the drop in boards. Never experienced a failure though till a few months ago. Yes, that scaletrains loco was a bit tricky to get back together. The one I had a problem with already had a foam wedge and tape. I thought I could get away with being lazy and not putting it all back as I originally found it but like you mentioned it would come apart putting the shell back on. I finally resigned to putting it back just the way I found it and success.
Update: I received a replacement Nano decoder from ESU and replacement micros from the manufacturer of the two locomotives I mentioned in the original post. All of these have been installed, tested and configured with no issues. At this point I don't have any spare decoders for troubleshooting or replacement should issues arise with my current locos. I think if I do get any though I'll get one of the ESU testers just so I can make sure any spares I do get can be fully test and put through their paces before they go out of warranty.
Hi I have about 10 diesels converted to ESU LokSound. I have one Atlas GP that is on it's third LokSound unit- #58721. Nothing seems out of the ordinary- pulls the correct current in DC mode on a precision power supply. But twice it was running on the flat and just quit. The sound functions are not affected. The control IC and the power transistors are really hot (tested without the body shell). Frank at ESU was good about exchanging, but there may be something in components in recent batches?? No issues with any other decoders in Atlas, Kato or Fox Valley diesels.
Well, I am feeling snakebit... and in AZ that means something. I put an ESU 58923 into an Atlas diesel- no problems although the installation was tricky. I just put in another 58923 into a different diesel- the install was easier that the first unit. However, this latter decoder- not so good. The sound started up, bell works, horn works, the engine sound works- for about 45 seconds or so. But, the sound is very crackly right from power-up. Then, the sound locks into a high pitch whine- like feedback. I turn it off, and same behavior, except it only takes a few seconds. Obviously, something is wrong with the sound chip. So back to the Pennsylvania shop. My concern is this is 5 out of 16 ESU decoders that have acted up. I was in semiconductors and research my whole career. We made over 150 Million discrete devices per day, and had much better than 6 sigma failure rates. Hmmmm. Anyone else have issues?
Yes, it could be partly in the firmware. I did update it first before I tested anything. But the crackling noise is not likely to be a software related issue- I have had this with guitar amps on and off for the past 40 years- it required a lot of digging into the circuitry to find things- sometimes as simple as a fractured or cold solder joint on a connection or feed line... On these little circuits, it is almost impossible (and costly) to try to find the cause.
I've seen the following on I believe ESU's site and two other places: ----------------------------------------------------------------------- "We found that some LokSound 5 decoders we produced at the beginning of 2023 have been used a power supply IC that was not up to our standards, either a fake or "B grade" component. If the component fails, the MCU will not be powered, thus the decoder fails. While extensive testing was done in our lab, we were not able to make the decoders fail. Unfortunately a small portion of these decoders have failed in the field. The failure has nothing to do with the locomotive, the programming process, nor the decoder firmware used. The component may never even fail which we have found is the vast majority. "ESU continues to stand behind its products and our industry leading 2-year ‘no questions’ asked warranty applies of course. Every customer can send decoders to our ESU LLC office for replacement directly. Please note that OEM decoders must be exchanged under the warranty of the OEM manufacturer. "The chip crisis has been hard on the industry as a whole but is recovering. We apologize for any inconvenience caused by this issue and want to thank you for your strong support." Mit freundlichen Grüßen Ihr ESU Support ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Sumner
Thanks Sumner. I appreciate what they are fighting. My companies spent millions looking out for counterfeit devices with our logos. Our designers put in various "gotchas" into the circuit layout so that when circuits were copied, they could be identified and we could prosecute the "fakers". Costly, but prevents your reputation and quality from being damaged.
I've had one failure of a LokSound 58941 that went into an E9. The replacement has worked so far. I've put a couple of LokSound nano's and micro's in with no problem but don't have much time on them and the micro's I bought some time ago. I have a half dozen or so LokPilot's and a few LokSound nano's and micro's I haven't installed yet. Probably should take the time to at least put them on my tester but seems some don't fail until there is at least a little time on them. I love the ESU decoders so will keep getting them and hopefully this will all be resolved after some inconvenience to us and a lot to them. Stuff ( or insert another word) happens. Sumner
The guys at ESU- Pennsylvania just exchanged the "busted" one. They are really supporting their customers in my experiences. They respond to questions and provide good warranty help.
It's good to see that ESU is taking care of this for you. Been looking at a lot of ESU info lately and it seems like what I see is that they have the 2 year no questions warranty on their stuff and they actually honor that. I really like what I see with the pin decoders and I wish more N scale manufacturers would go to that.
Here is something I figured out about possibly bad ESU decoders. If they are non-responsive using the ESU programmer, refresh firmware to the latest version and then they should run with no issues. I had this happen with a dozen ESU equipped locomotives. They were dead on the track until I updated the decoder's firmware and that fixed every problem locomotive.
Worth trying but on the newer ones that are failing but according to ESU (see their statement in my post up a ways) that isn't going to do it. I did that twice with the bad one I got with no luck. Sumner
My "bad" units were purchased in this calendar year 12 in total, all of them were "factory installed". And all of them worked fine after the firmware was updated and refreshed.
