What was it that brought about the demise of the gyralights and mars lights on SP units. I heard somewhere from someone that there was an FRA ruling that everything that moved had to function properly or the engine would be taken out of service. The SP wasn't willing to maintain them, so off they came. Was that the real story? Seems almost all roads replaced them, though I did see one maybe 4 or 5 years ago. I know there was some sort of ruling about a triangulation of lights stipulated by the FRA, but with the SP lights in the cab, they would still have been okay. So what was the real story?
SPSF was the main reason. SP saw that Santa Fe did not use them, so they began to take them out. Also the UDE light was removed. In there place the "gumball machine" amber beacon was added. Not all units lost there gyra's and UDE's. Some lasted until the end.
Okay, 9811, I'm CEO of the SP and I tell the stockholders that this big competitor (ATSF) is operating without something we have. I'm going to initiate a program that will not only spend your money on the labor required to remove ours, but then I'm spending more of it to replace these lights with a revolving beacons on the roof. 9811, over 2000 engines involved! Do you subscribe to this? That it is a total internal decision of the SP's doesn't explain them disappearing from virtually all railroads. What is your source?
You make good points. My source is from what I have read, and what I have heard. I have wondered why myself. I have also heard that maintaining them was expensive, and that Pyle didn't make parts for them anymore. But the SPSF explanation was the one I heard the most. I guess we can also ask why SP adopted the Santa Fe style warning light. Which I thought was pretty cool. Thom
Hey Thom! I just think the lights are extra cool! You ever seen one in the fog? Anyway, I'm not sure of the rotating mechanism, but if that was the issue, it would seem you could just stop the rotation in a straight forward position and just use it as a stationery headlight instead of going through all this other stuff. 4449 still uses one. I'd love to have one in my train room.:shade: I'm not familiar with the ATSF details, but if you're speaking of the red emergency light that sits atop the nose light cluster, I had no idea that was an original ATSF item. It kinda disappeared along with the gyralites.
SouPac The warning light I mentioned is the roof top orange beacon, that had four bulbs and each bulb would flash in a chasing pattern, simulating a rotating light. The UDE or Undesired Emergency Light was the red light above the headlight on the nose. It only came on when the train went into emergency. I have seen gyra's locked forward, just being used as a headlight. And seeing a operating gyra was pretty awesome at night. Used to see them alot along Sierra Hwy in Lancaster, CA at night. I wish I had a good camera back then to capture them on film. Thom
In short, a lawyer. A woman was struck by a train moving in reverse, and the lawyer got the jury to award her a bazillion(tm) dollars because they should have had the same lights on both sides. Off came the neato extra light packages! :sad:
Man I remember standing on one type of combat vehicle or another overlooking the SP between El Paso and Alamogordo NM and watching that gyralight coming down the basin for what must have been 20 minutes until it passed below us..
I recently traded a few emails with a fomer SP engineer (retained by the gray & yellow tyrant). He says that he was never aware of any corporate directive to remove the gyralights as an isolated project. He says he remembers seeing them begin to disappear in 1987, and believes that the removal was primarily done when there was a maintenance issue with the light or when the engine was in for other major repairs. He recalls several engines retaining the lights well into the 90's, and, in fact, the GP38-2's that were dedicated to snow-fighting retained theirs right up through the beginning of the scourge. The TEBU's apparently did likewise. If anyone knows how to contact 4449 engineer, Doyle McCormick, you might ask him. 4449 uses one all the time. Wonder where he gets replacements?
Very good info SouPac. SP also used the Oscitrol warning light. They came standard on the GE B36-7. In the mid eighties SP replaced some gyra's with the Oscitrol "poor man's gyra". Thom
Mars lights on video? As a newbie to the SP and 'over the pond' too - is there any film or video recommended of the Mars light in operation? It sounds very unusual, and this thread has wetted my appetite to see one. A trip to see 4449 is fairly remote at present - I missed it last time is was in Portland! Happy New Year Peter Harris
Hi Peter Welcome to TrainBoard!! Its good to have another SP fan on board! There are many SP videos with active Gyras. Some that come to mind are..Pentrex's "Across Donner Summit", this video has a quick close up of a gyra and UDE on a snow fighting GP38-2. Pentrex "Shasta Division", Video Rails "Tehachapi Loop". Many of the Charles Smiley videos, like "SP When" and "SP Scrap Book". There are many good SP videos showing gyras in action. Thom
Youtube Gyra display This video link onto youtube has an E9 with the UP Southern Pacific Heritage loco. Is it the gyra that is showing on the E9? Why is the flashing a repeated double flash - or am I seeing it incorrectly? Was this the flash pattern of every Mars light - or did it depend on which angle you were seeing it from. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d44y62FXcno"]YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.[/ame] Happy New Year Peter Harris
6051 has a Mars light, made by Mars Signal Light Company. This type of warning light made a "figure 8" pattern. Some Mars models could also produce a "U" shaped pattern. Im not sure if the model 6051 has can do that. Her main sealed beam head light is also a Mars. Thom
To have seen the 'figure eight' pattern of the SP diesels was very cool! It was one of my favorite things about SP units. The lights were taken off due to the fact that if it did not function correctly, the entire unit had to be taken out of service until the light was repaired. As they were getting older, and failed more, this was quite costly. Also, about the time this was happening, ditch lights were becoming the standard, so the extra visibility the gyro light was suppost to give off was not an issue any more as the ditch lights also took care of that too. One thing 'standardization' did was take away the different railroads individual look.
I was driving down a highway one night in a rural area and in a heavy fog. Up ahead was the eeriest visual effect you'd been able to imagine at the time — and then some! My buddy riding passenger thought the martians were landing. Eventually we came upon a train headed up by an SP tunnel motor with the mars light bouncing around! I was pretty sure what it was from the beginning because of the adjacent railroad tracks, but if you didn't have a clue, as was the case with my passenger, it was pretty darn scary! Love the mars lights! (you think that's how they got their name?)
From Rollin Bredenberg who used to be with the SP at one time before moving on to the BNSF, the chief reason for getting away from the Mars lights was the costs of maintaining the lights.
For a year I lived directly across the Sunset main in Converse, TX. This was in the early 70's and espee locos all had the light package in working order. At night I would sit on the porch and watch trains pass, alerted well in advance by the sweeping light. I wonder if the crews got tired of seeing all the deer and other night time critters illuminated trackside by the gyralight? Doc
Frank Mars invented the Mars gyralight. He was also the owner of the Mars candy Company. He lived in New Rochelle, IL? Somewhere in the Chicago area? His son eventually marketed Snickers and M&Ms.
Frank Mars provided the capital. Go here for a detailed explination: http://www.trainweb.org/gyra/history.htm
