Help: Baldwin Centipede Photos or Drawings?

Don't really want to argue over this, but if LifeLike can and has produced the RS-27, 27 engines on how many roads? And if Atlas can produce the RS-32 with 35 engines and/or the RS-36 (40 units) - again for how many roads?

Then, there's Bachmann with the electric, forget the model number - but again 12 units with 4 or 5 color schemes.

I have to kinda take it for granted that none of these companies wanted to produce "shelf queens." While I realize that the running gear would be a large hurdle to overcome, didn't a lot of electric motors use a very similiar running gear?

And how many Pennsy fans are out there? Their number is real close to the biblical "legion." Besides, the unit itself is very impressive and I believe many modelers would buy one to have one.

 

Marketability?

Before considering the supposed unmarketability of the Baldwin Centipedes, please recall a steam locomotive of which only 25 were built and could only operate over a small portion of the single owning railroad, yet has been repeatedly produced with fans constantly yammering for more. The steamer?, the Big Boy 4-8-8-4.

I think one would find the Centipede having a similar attraction, the DD-40 did. :cat:

 

The Virginian (and I believe the N&W) called that engine an EL-C. NH, PC and CR called it an E-33.

There are two 2-D-D-2 electrics I can think of: the Little Joe and the GN W-1. I don't know if either is close to the frame length and axle spacing of a Centipede.

 

Pete's question about Baldwin Centipede drawings leads me to mention, for those of you who don't use it, that if you go to
trains.com
and then the Model Railroader Magazine site, they have a Index of Magazines which you can search (I usually use the Keyword Search)
that will tell you what has been published concerning a particular model or prototype. You will have to register with Kalmbach but it doesn't cost anything and it is something that I use quite often in my work.
If you find a magazine or book that has something in it you want you can usually go to your local library where they can arrange for an interlibrary loan or secure a photocopy of the desired pages for you.
Charlie Vlk

 

Matt,

The Centipede was Baldwin's attempt to create a very powerful loco with a great tractive effort. A two-unit consist produced 6,000 HP from four 1,500 turbocharged diesels. They were heavy. There was an articulated subframe under the cab units. The D-trucks did spread the weight--a single unit weighed about 250 tons--which is about what the DD-40X weighed two decades later.

While advanced for their time, they were quickly surpassed by EMD and ALCO designs.

 

Matt,

They were also built one at a time, so each one was different. Different wiring, different routing, different components--this alone made maintenance horrendous. They were much like the minicomputers of the 1980s--each one with different boards, different jumpers, undocumented software patches, etc. So the Centipedes went the same way as the minicomputers--obsoleted very quickly by mass-produced, standardized cab- and hood-designs from EMD and Alco.

My own opinion of them is that they were just too ambitious for the time. Later, simpler designs like the Sharks had better success, but not enough to fight off EMD and Alco.

 

Considering the original goal was to produce a single 6000-hp unit with (IIRC) 8 removable gensets, their goals were definitely ahead of their time.

 

One huge difference is that the Big Boy can be seen today, and has for decades, as a steam attraction. It's developed new fans.

When's the last time anyone saw a Centipede?

Exercise: Go into a room of generic rail fans of all ages. Ask how many know what the Big Boy is. Then ask how many know what a Centipede is. Most will suggest calling an exterminator!

 

So many wheels ...

I remember reading somewhere one factor that led Baldwin down the path of giant single-unit locomotives was that in the dawn of dieseldom the railroad labor unions were insisting that each locomotive in a multi-unit lash-up was to be considered a separate locomotive and would therefore need its own crew. After all, this was how steam locomotives worked. Therefore the constant thread in the evolution of steamers was to put more h.p. under the control of one crew.

Baldwin's first passenger diesel was to be a 6,000 h.p. behemoth riding on a 2-D+D-2 wheel arrangement and armed with eight (count 'em eight) 750 h.p. diesel engine + generator sets.

This Centipede-type wheel arrangement would impart exceptional high-speed tracking while carrying so much weight. Here Baldwin drew upon the great success they had with their straight electrics. Remember the Pennsylvania GG-1 with its 2-C+C-2 arrangement.

 

Don't want to say too much, but you've probably seen where BLI is now taking pre-orders for the second run of Centipedes. And the first run, even with overrun, was sold out before arrival.

Have to admit that due to current economic conditions I did get to the point where I had some doubts as to this units sales success as an HO scale model.

Now however, with BLI's beautiful rendition of that Baldwin "Baby-Face" could we possibly see some of the 1500/2000 h.p. "Baby-faces"? That would be a challenge.

 

Let's look at who had those units.
4-axle Babyface: NYC, CNJ, MP.
6-axle Babyface: NYC, SAL, GM&O, CNW (single-engine with baggage compartment, different shell needed, and only one unit), CNJ (double-ended, the most famous 6-axle)
Neither has a road as popular as PRR. At least the 4-axle has three roadnames that could sell some. The Centipede doesn't really have that, with NdeM being a small market. Even though NYC had both 4- and 6-axle Babyfaces, they aren't associated as strongly with the road as PRR's Centipedes. Until I checked a roster, I forgot that GM&O had any Babyfaces.
These are probably the most underappreciated cab units. I doubt we'll see an N model soon, because as with steam, I expect bigger power to be more in demand.

 

Well, I've given some more thought to this subject.

Perhaps it is not so far-fetched as one might suppose. Believe it was Mr. Lubliner (?) with his line of F-unit "Highliners" that showed us that one basic set of molds with inserts could cover the complete line from F-2 to F-9. I imagine that if he'd been thinking about it - ditto all the FP variations. Certainly Athearn every few months or so shows just how successful this has been.

I certainly am totally dumb about the mechanics of plastic injection molding (except that it is hideously expensive from both a labor and monetary point) but a similiar approach would probably be possible for Baldwin's "baby faces." And while I (like every other modeller) would love an absolute duplicate in miniature, I don't tend to get the vapors from one (even possibly two) mis-placed vents or a couple, three inches here and there.

Well, it's all conjecture anyway. But Bowser has announced Baldwin road switchers in Norfolk-Southern's original red/yellow/black scheme with the correct A-1-A trucks and even though the 3 roads I currently model keep me busy and poor - I'm going to buy one of each number offered. Knew I shoulda bought those N-S GP-18's when LL offered them.

 

As a native of California, I'm all to familiar with centipedes. The centipede tender behind the Big Boy and Challenger as well as the PRR Centipede and the crawley types that I occasionally find along my base boards. Yep, and they aren't the only ones.

So, what you need Pete and can I be of any further assistance?

 

When I get all my stuff moved to Ohio, I will take up the project again. Before things started to change, I had built a suitable frame, using D-D trucks from Rick's old 40DDX's. Unfortunately I ran into the infamous Bachmann cracked axle gears problem. It will be about Thanksgiving before I get to looking at the stuff again--I have a brutal travel schedule.

The cab and nose is the hardest challenge on the shell. I do flat sides with doors and grilles for my ships all the time, as well as curved roofs with lots of details. I have an idea of how to build the articulated subframe. The D-D trucks are actually close enough in terms of diameter and spacing, although the sideframes will have to be custom molded.