Now seeing where you are heading with the layout diagram supplied, the problem is not the PowerCab but the usage - it's too much for it. Lighted passenger consists and sound locos take a lot of current when run in multiple, even on small layouts. The NCE SB3A upgrade will cover what you want to do current-wise and work with the PM42 but if you really desire the loconet interface, and a larger layout, then a larger Digitrax system will be the way forward rather than going to the Zephyr, for the reason Mark states above. You can keep the PowerCab for off-layout programming and testing.
Oh really, wow I hope not. I already ordered the Zephyr along with the power supply. And yes I’m serious about this layout. I have all the track laid except for the helix and shelf layout. The yard is also done except for turnout control and buildings. I have 46 servos to mount and I little wiring left to do, but it will all be controlled through a combination of components from Teamdigital and Tam Valley. Is it possible to pass trains from one DCC system to another? I was wondering if I could have the Zephyr run the Yard and Unitrack Layout because they both have reverse loops and have my helix and shelf layout with PowerCab.
Possible? Yes, but probably more trouble than it's worth and I wouldn't want to risk possibly damaging one of the systems if they ever got crossed. What do you expect you will ever run at one time on your layout? That has a lot more to do with how much system you will need than how big your layout is. I would say that there is a very good chance you will not exceed the capabilities of the Zephyr. A while back there were several questions regarding the capabilities of the Zephyr on another forum, so I did a sort of "torture test" on my Zephyr to see what I could run with it and posted the results. Here is what I posted: Note that that was the limit for me and my temporary layout, not the Zephyr. Even if you do exceed the capabilities of the Zephyr, you can still use the Zephyr as a booster and stationary throttle with another Digitrax command station.
Thanks Robert I think you answered my question pretty good. At the very most I might have 2 passenger trains with A&Bunits unless I I add another A unit. I probably will never do that with the passenger trains, but I do plan on having 3 or 4 locos with my freight trains. So far I see 2 passenger trains, 1 or 2 freight trains and a switcher in the yard on the lower layouts. I plan on using a couple of steamers including an Athearn Challenger, a couple of 2-8-0 Consolidation, and a Walthers 130' turntable on the upper shelf. I hope that’s too much and I don’t have the turntable yet so I don’t know where they get power from.
SleeperN06 Well I have watched this for a while and I have to concur with a previous post and say you are getting the wrong type of system. If you want the Zephyr, I understand, but you will want to add a few DB150 boosters to the mix to insure there is enough power all the way around the layout. If you like the PowerCab operation, then you can also add boosters to it. You can still use LocoNet by adding a Team Digital SRC16 board that acts as a gateway form DCC to LocoNet. In either case, I would have a booster for each major track panel. Use the Zephyr/PowerCab to control the sparse top section, and add a booster for each of the two side panels. You have a lot happening on these two sides and in additon to the track power, there is also powering the DCC accessories. As was said also, passing between 2 different systesm is am major headache. Avoid at all costs!
Well thanks, but I already have the Zephyr on its way. It was supposed to be shipped today so I’ll just have to wait and see. I guess I could skip the helix and have two separate layouts one for steam and one for diesel, although I really wanted to be able to run a long train once and awhile. I can’t run much more than 15 cars right now and that’s why I wanted the helix and upper shelf.
What Digitrax system should I have bought? Last year I was made aware of all shortfalls of the PowerCab like power requirements and compatibly issues with LocoNet after I made my purchase. So then I decided to sell the PowerCab and buy the Super Chief. Then it was recommended to me last October I think to buy the Zephyr instead of the Super Chief because the Zephyr circuitry had troubleshooting benefits built-in and I could add on throttles to fit my needs. So I put off on the buying a new DCC system and bought an Athearn Challenger w/sound instead.biggrin: So now I find that my new Challenger and Steam Layout extension with turntable just killed my Zephyr plans AFTER I bought it.frown: Boosters were mentioned and when I looked it up the DB150 I noticed that they are a Combination Command Station/Booster. Is that what I really want with the Zephyr or a DB200+ 8amp Booster? Anyway I want my next move to be complete with no more added additional surprises like power supplies and I don’t know what else. If neither PowerCab nor Zephyr is going to work then I guess I could sell them and buy the correct system
...and confusion reigns! While it seems that you have gotten all kinds of different advice, they really are quite consistent.... 1) The Zephyr is likely sufficient for your needs for now (so long as the 10/12 slot limit is acceptable), and a good way to build experience with the Digitrax line. If you need more slots, you might consider a swap for the new Zephyr Xtra (20 slots, 3 amps), which, like the original Zephyr, is almost a "mini-DCS100" in terms of programming and troubleshooting features. 2) If slots are not an issue, but you find you need more amps, add a DB150 or DB200+ booster and a compatable power supply (the Magna Force MF 615 is a good one for either unit), keeping the Zephyr as the command station. Yes the DB150 is also a command station, but a limited one. The command station functionality was originally included to provide a mid price-point system (the Super Empire Builder), which, with 22 slots, no separate programming output and no CV readback capability, has essentially been made obsolete with the introduction of the Zephyr Xtra. The DB150 thus returns to its rightful place as a 5 Amp booster where it belongs. 3) If the incremental growth approach is not your preference, go for the full enchilada with a Super Chief set, but all you'll get over a Z + DB150 is 120 slots and command station based routes (well, and a hand-held throttle, which you can add to a Z or ZX in any case). 4) In any of the Digitrax based solutions, you can add wireless by adding a UR92 LocoNet transceiver and a DT402D or UT4D wireless throttle. HTH
Well, a Zephyr by itself probably is not going to run the whole railroad, but I think "a few DB150's" would also be overkill. From my experience, most N-scale locomotives draw less than 200 ma in normal operation. From your description, I see a worst case scenario of around 17 locomotives, 13 on the lower level and 4 on the upper level. If you allow for 250 ma per loco(250 to allow some headroom) that would give 3.25 amps on the lower level and 1 amp on the upper level for a total current draw of 4.25 amps(the Tam Valley and Team Digital compomemts, if configured correctly, should not draw power from the DCC buss). If it were me, I would just keep the Zephyr for now and once I exceeded it's power add a single DB150 or upgrade to the DCS100(Super Chief). Use the DB150 or DCS100 on the lower level and the Zephyr on the upper level.
Ok thanks guys, so I guess I just keep the Zephyr since I already bought it and add a booster if needed. I want to be sure that I will be able to use this stuff before opening the box. I’m not sure what it will cost to return it, but this is starting to get expensive.
The DB150 is a 5 amp booster or a lower featured controller than the Zephyr. All it takes to be a booster is a jumper wire. So it is no big deal, and it blends in with the Zephyr seamlessly. If you plan on running big steamers with sound or even diesels with sound, you will use more power than just a dcc powered locomotive. Depending on how much you dive into DCC, you will need the additional power of the booster or boosters. For instance, if you power all of the DS64's from the track, that will take some power away from the tracks. And if you add other DCC items like signals or want to power and run your DCC controlled turntable, that will take more power. It is better to err on the extra power than not enough power. Also, make sure you get the circuit breakers becasue the adage goes, "the breakers in the controller are there to protect the controller, circuit breakers are there to protect your locomotives". So look into the DCC Specialities PSX units and avoid the potential heartbreak. The slot issue can get you too with the Zephyr, but just make sure you connect up your layout to the PC and use JMRI DecoderPro (Free), and you can easily cleanout the slots when you need to. You will need to get the connection from the PC to the Zephyr, like the rr-circuits LocoBuffer USB. A few more costs, but if they save you the aggravation of a melted locomotive, the cost is easily justified. Above all, remember that this will be a lot easier for you as time passes and you get more experience.
Thanks David, this is a big help and except for the booster, think I got it covered.. When I priced the DB150 I found that they were almost as the DB200+ with 8 amps. I don’t know if it will make a difference or not. As far as the DS64s, I have two PS14s powering them, but I also have them connected to track power so that my PowerCab can control them. After I get LocoNet I will not need that any more. I ordered the RR-Cirkits Loco Buffer USB along with the Zephyr, so I’ll get them in the same package and I already have JMRI DecoderPro installed, although I’m still learning how to use it. I did manage to created a roster and opened 4 throttles to actually run some locos on my NCE system. I also plan on using routing and computer control to operate my 46 C55 servo controlled turnouts and 11 Unitrack turnouts. And this is the primary reason why I want LocoNet. I’m not sure what I’m going to use for the turnouts on the upper Steamer layout, but I’m thinking all C80 track and turnouts for up there. So I have a good feeling about this right now and I plan on taking it easy until I see how things are working out. If worst comes to worst, then I’ll just have to have restrictions and limits on what I can do.
Its because I’m using 2 Team Digital SIC 24AD boards that runs 5 Tam Valley Octopus II Eight Servo Drivers plus 2 Digitrax DS64s and although it does work with the NCE I lose a lot of benefits because both the SIC 24AD and the DS64 are specifically designed for LocoNet.
