Ken, Lajos just said it and said it right. You are familiar with the often quoted statement about plane accidents........'pilot error' This is almost 100% true in Z scale. You may not understand the procedures and complexity of a manufacturing plant such as MTL. Retooling is not something you do like resharpening a lawn mower blade. MTL is not about to invest huge sums of money to totally engineer a whole new F7. It just isn't feasible and most of us realize that. I'm not scolding you, just trying to help you step back and take a deep breath and regroup before you feel like throwing something against the wall. There are hundreds if not thousands of F7s out in the field that perform flawlessly and with regularity. The issue may be with your particular units, but over all, I'd side with Lajos and suggest you do a Sherlock Holmes number on your track work. I have a friend in this area who bought a AZL loco and was having trouble with it. He came to visit me and brought the loco with him. I found nothing wrong with the loco when I tested it. The immediate noticeable factor where he was concerned was the size of his hands. Quite honestly, he was a big man with hands that were not suitable for working on Z scale. I'm not suggesting you have the same issue, but in my own personal experience with Z, when I have a problem I most often find the culprit to be yours truly. I have either been careless in maybe just one little detail or overlooked something of vital importance that to the naked eye looks acceptable but the little locos and rolling stock are tender little babies that we must handle with loving care. Do give your track work a thorough going over, do check the loco's wheel gauge, and also the turnout clearances. This is often the issue with the early release turnouts from MTL. How about that coupler trip pin? There may be the culprit also? Let me relate an experience with some of my Z........ when I built my first module, a large end module, 3' x 6 1/4' I designed it to be in three pieces, with the intention of bolting it together at each train show. That idea could have worked, but in the case of this module, it would have meant cutting 12 tracks after cementing them down. I quickly realized that attempting to align 12 tracks, with 6 of them inside mountains and thus invisible to the naked eye, would be a sheer impossibility. I could not have had rail joiners at those hidden track joints, and even the exposed joints would have been a nightmare to align each time. Couple that situation with jumper wires at each track junction and the whole thing became an obvious dilemma for me. Before I made the mistake of cutting through my rails, I wisely decided to glue and screw the three module sections together. And thus they sit today. I wouldn't unscrew one of those screws if you bribed me.......(how much are you offering? ) When I had the track work cemented down with CA every few inches, and with every track piece soldered to the adjacent piece, thus NOT allowing for any expansion, I began to test run some F7s on the track. I like to think that I do a better job with my track work than many, and the lack of running issues tends to validate my thinking or at least my skill level. That is not to say there have not be derailments under the mountains which require old men to stoop, squat, and fumble around in the semi darkness of the underside of my modules, but guess what? Those derailments have not been due to bad track work, but rather to issues with trucks being too tight to negotiate tight turns, improper weighted cars, or too long a string of cars for the radius the trains have to negotiate. Simply put, my track work has caused no issues with running my trains. Now this will cause you and others to scratch their heads a bit and wonder 'how can that be?' Now remember, #1...No expansion joints in 26' of looping back and forth track with almost 2% grade and tight radius. #2... Track is secured with CA over three bolted together module sections. And the final brain teaser....#3...I've had this module for over 5 years and sometimes stored it in my trailer which heats up very hot in the summer sun! And guess what, just two weeks ago, we ran trains for almost 25 hours at NTS and I don't recall a single derail inside the mountains. Go figure! I know I may be pushing my luck and someday the CA may give way and my track will erupt from the mountain sides with explosive force, but so far........it works. MY whole point in this story is that track work is the key to proper running. If you do it right the first time, it likely won't bite you later on. So Ken, step back, begin with your loco, and check the wheel gauge, trip pin height, and then go to the track and really check it closely. In regards to the old F7s......there is something drastically wrong with them if they will not pull more than a few cars. If I am wrong, then I invite anyone with F7s who is reading this to chime in and share their experience. Ken, we all want to see you be a happy Z camper, but you must realize that is is like Lajos said. Z is the last letter of the alphabet so the learning curve is long and slow. At the end of the curve, (which never comes) you are an experienced Z modeler, rich in knowledge gained from sharing experiences and shows, and able to enjoy this hobby in many aspects. Wishing you all the success possible, Loren
Just a neanderthal HO-scaler here, but I read all the threads. Just wondering - have you sent the units back to MTL yet? Seems from reading the posts that the answer lies there.
Not necessarily. As I carefully read thru the posts I've noticed, Ken didn't even bother to turn the poor F7 upside down, hold it in some kind of cage, then see what happens, when he touches the wheels with a pair of wire, or better, a small piece of track soldered to a pair of wire (a basic maintenance tool for any, even beginner model railroader). Do the basic tests instead of writing an essay about China, MTL and all the bad luck on earth... Then, if after all the basic tests the locomotive is proven faulty, deal with it like anything else in life, follow the warranty procedure. It can be and always should be done pleasantly, direct between the involved parties. As we all know, s**t happens. If it's a trend, trust me, the manufacturer will pay lots of attention to the product.
With my MTL hat on...if I ever said I sacrificed quality in any way, it was a slip of the keys or I miss spoke. Anyone who knows me, knows differently. I am also concerned you feel the need to go on the offensive in public without contacting me first so I can figure out what happened. Seems I took care of you before? You will be hard pressed to find another rep or manufacturer who goes out of their way to fix things that are broken, our fault or not the way MTL does. Even after this "exchange" I would be happy to fix your engine for you. With my MTl hat off...I have nothing to say. Joe
Joe, You are a hard man to track down...you're very stealthy. I call, leave messages, text you, ask Sara to chase you down, and still you elude me. You can run, but you can't hide you waskily wabbit. What do I want?..........does Dunsmuir ring a bell? Meet you at the haunt on Sunday morning.......bring plans. Also a run day........bring your off spring down to the park for Thomas train rides. ZU Signed, Your friendly parole officer )
I come here today to appologize to anyone I may have offended with my comments about my F7's. The possible problems that many have mentioned, IE: wheel guage, trip pins, and trackwork have been checked and yes, we have found problems and yes, they have been addressed. I am somewhat happier with the performance of these F7's as they do not stall on our turnouts anymore, nor do they tend to stall on standard radius curves. Screws in truck bottoms were tight except for one on the B unit. Trip pins were found to be within tolerances but we adjusted them upwards a mm or two anyway. So I or should I say we, are eating crow right now for most of the issues I posted in this thread. However, the wobble problem persists at low speed, and is still present but not as noticeable at higher speeds. Also the drag presented by the B unit persists as well. So we took the trucks of the B unit apart and a question arose. Why do the wheels of this unit have a gear on them when there is no mechanism or motor to connect to them? Why aren't these wheels on a plain axle? Seems to us that if you have a unit with no motor in it, then why have gears that serve no useful perpose? Are there replacement wheels sets that can be purchased? Loren: We here have all read your post and everything you mentioned has been experienced over the last few months both collectively and individually and these issues were addressed. Your insight has always been a guiding force in building our layout. Not to offend anyone else who has offered their expertise. Lajos: We did turn this F7 over to inspect it. Several times in fact. Just because I didn't mention it, doesn't mean we didn't do it and yes we did hold wires to the wheels to see what happened. So your comments there were way off the mark. As for China, I stand behind what I said and I will not change it. Too much crap comes from there and it would be great if the rest of the manufacturing world would boycott anything they manufacture. Enough said about that. In as far as expectations of Z-scale are concerned, well gents, I/we make no appologies for expecting high quality products given the price we have to pay for these units. To say that costs increase with the degree of quality involved is unexceptable by anyone's standards. It is also a defeatist attitde. Some problems have been corrected but others remain and we will continue to address these until we have exhausted all possible solutions. Then and only then will this A unit be sent back to MTL for repair or replacement. Joe please take note. Thanks to all for your assistance and I do not wish to persue this further. End of thread.
This is incredible. You have a MTL rep state on this thread that they will be happy to fix your engines for you. And yet you are going to "exhaust all possible options". Doesn't getting them fixed sound like a good option?
