IHC 4-4-0

First of all, I'd like to say hello to everyone. Looks like a very interesting site. You can be sure I'll have many questions since I'm new at this hobby. My two grandsons turned into train nuts at a very early age. Of course, I think I can take credit for that. So, to keep it going, I'm building a small layout. Used is the only
thing I can afford right now and that's where my question comes from
I bought a IHC 4-4-0 American. When I first got it home it ran fine. The second time I ran it onto a turnout and it stopped. The driveshaft from the tender still turned, but the engine freewheeled. So I took the tender off and examined the driveshaft and it was fine. What I noticed is the engine coupling is real sloppy. But when I pressed the driveshaft onto the coupling, the gears did engage again.
So I put it back together and it ran for about a foot and the same thing happened. I think the worm gear is either loose or shot and needs replacing. My question is what can I expect when I take the bottom off? I've never done this before and I really don't want to wreck anything or have parts flying all over. Pre-cautions I should take?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

This wouldn't have anything to do with cheap plastic you guys were discussing, would it?

 

Hmmm, I am not familiar with that loco - but when ever I am taking something apart and I don't know what to expect I take it apart inside a shoebox. That (usually) provides enough protection to keep small parts from going on a carpet holiday.

 

<font color="336633">Welcome to trainboard Marken </font>

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by yankinoz:
keep small parts from going on a carpet holiday.<hr></blockquote>

<font color="336633">and under something and down a crack where it is impossable to get
</font>

 

Thanks for the welcome.
After looking over the exploded diagram for this loco, I just decided to dive right in and take it apart. Sure isn't much to it.
The problem was the weight, which holds the wormgear,bearings and driveshaft in place has a small brass insert which holds everything tight. This insert was worn to nothing and the unit had lots of slop which caused the gears not to mesh.
To improvise, I took a railjoiner and flattened it somewhat and tucked it under the weight. This rests just on the two bearings.
I put it back together and away it went. Guess I worried about nothing.

 

Marken,
Sounds like you got a loose axle gear spinning out of the socket that holds it set on the axle to make the wheel turn with the worm. It also could and can be that you got a faulty worm gear and the teeth on it isn't "grabing" the teeth on the axle gear..... Its one of the 2 I have found this problem in many, many loco's.... Only way to fix it is send it back where you got it or call IHC and see what they tell you in response if its still under warrenty. If not a replacement gear on the axle and worm is what its going to need! And one other thing that it can be is the bearings on the worm gear shaft, if they are worn by any means which will let the worm slip on the axle gear and it won't move the axle gear at all till it falls back in place or catches some teeth on the axle gear.... This is common though... I've repaired many of this same type situation. Not to bad to do, but does take time and patients being it has to be done right with the right worm gear to the right axle gear. Hope this helps

 

Sounds like you got it whupped Marken. If you run into any more slipping, It might be an ecconomical idea to mail it off to:

Yellowstone10@hotmail.com

to the attention of Mr. J. Patton for repairs. He is reasonable on price, and does professional repairs. He also re-paints, and can re-build the engine, so I would reccomend him first.

It sounds like you are capable of doing some pretty good "fixin" on your own though, maybe it will run alright for awhile. Remember to oil it just a little once in awhile, and soak up excess oil with a Q-Tip.

Keep us up to date, and let us hear from the young engineers too. They need to tell us how they are running the engine and about the layout. We would enjoy seeing photos of them running it.

 

Thanks for the replies everyone. One more question...
Do these types of drives usually run poorly? I bought a second one (slow learner?)and neither one runs very smooth. They both stop quite frequently and it seems like it's caused by the gears not meshing properly. If you just tap it lightly, it goes again. Any fixes you can recommend?
Also, can I put a working headlight on these? Any suggestions on which bulbs and how to wire them?

Thank you for any help you may offer.

 

Marken,
So when you run it and it stops, and just a light bump and it will go???? If this is the case I know is the bearing in it one or the other the front bearing or the rear bearing. One of them is letting the worm up off the axle gear and letting it stall.....I'm going to asume that its a newer loco with the plastic gearing, Also this could be possible but not a real good chance though, It might have a "bald" spot on a gear either one. Which means teeth are missing notably on the axle gear, OR the worm gear has a bad gear tooth path and the ridge is distorted and not catching the axle gear right. If its the upgraded older version you may have real problems with it being its very possible then to have brass gears (which I conciderably doubt) but its possible. Anyway take it apart if it has brass gears and look real close for brass shavings in it on the oil or grease. If so that means their wear on them and not aligned properly and that is causing it to stall, and also being its wore like that it isn't meshing right and jaming it and its stalling the motor as well. That will burn up the little prime mover inside and cause even more problems. I would find out if any shavings of any kind are present inside and if their plastic gears check for rough spots on both gears axle and worm....Let us know what you find...

On putting a head light in it. I'd have to say you may have to drill out the existing light fixture to open a hoole for a lens and get something for a lens and some fibre optics and run a short piece of the optics down to where you could bevel cut the optics to face toards the light bulb itself inside the loco. The light bulb you'll need is a smal grain of wheat bulb or a even smaller grain of rice bulb. It needs to be from 12 volt DC to 18 volt DC. This will give you the head light your looking for....

 

I have several IHC engines, including the two old timers they made. The tender drive has been used successfully in Europe for some time. IHC as a company does not seem to communicate with its customers very well so far as I am conserned. They have never answered any of my e-mails, nor snail nail. The engine side "U" joint on mine is out of alignment with the worm shaft. The hole is drilled crooked. I seem to be the only one that cares.

Would your grandsons be just as happy with a couple of Santa Fe Diesels? E-mail me your postal address, maybe we can get them something that runs.

 

7600EM_1, thanks for the reply. The gears are plastic and there is absolutely no grease on them or the bearings. Part of the problem? Also, now that I have the tenders disconnected, I was going to place the tenders on the track and see how the motor runs by itself. I would expect the coupler to turn smoothly since it's not driving anything. Should the motors be lubed also?

As far as the lights go, I know Bachmann makes a lighted version of this loco. Do you think I could adapt the light housing onto my IHC's? The mounting might be the same(?)

watash, you have been more than generous, but the boys and I are steamers. (blame Thomas!)I do have a Camel Back that runs like a top and the little ones have not seen it yet so at least I have one that runs good. Hopefully, with a little tinkering and adjusting and great advice I'm getting I'll get them running. The offer is much appreciated though.

Will gladly send pictures of the boys when I have some.

 

Marken,
Get those gears greased up as to a light coating on the overall gears. Not so much that at a later date it would need an "oil change" but grease or oils them good but not over do it... see???

As far as the motor goes light oil on the bearing where the motor shaft goes into the motor in the front and the same with the back.... Just use light oil in those 2 spots and do not over do the job here specaially here it will cause the motor to smoke if to much oil is appied and do harm to the comutator inside the motor. I'm guessing by you saying it has plastic gears that YES it is the newer or newest version out and that should mean that it has the semi sealed or the completely sealed motor... If you over oil the shaft bearing on the motor their is only one way to remedy that and its to get a whole replacement moto, thier is no way into the inside of it being its no doubt in my mind totally sealed tight. Take your time and use caution and becarefull and it will run like a top!!!!!!

On your headlight problem, you might try that with the Bachmann 4-4-0 and see if it comes anywhere close to the moulding on your IHC.... It might work.. I'm not to sure anymore of the tooling on Bachmanns to the difference from it to the IHC tooling. Give it a try and see what happens. So your going to order a part from Bachmann and try it???? Or do you have an old Bachmann head light casing in a parts box??? Because if you purchase a part and try that and it won't work and you do anything to it other then the way it came to you, you will lose what ever amount you have in it to from the purchase and shipping. Take your time, think things through and becarefull, and use alot of precaution and it will surprise you with the end results....

 

Be sure to use a grease that is compatible with plastic gears! It is a white Lithium based grease that you can get from the hobby shop in a little tube. It will last you for a couple of years or more. Remember the hypo for a part of a drop of oil on the motor bearings, and side rods.

Good idea to test run the tenders!

 

One last question. I see that Rivarossi also makes the 4-4-0 loco. It has the same kind of drive as the IHC but with the brass gears.
I guess what I'm asking is what manufacturer do you recommend for steam engines? I think I found out IHC is not a real bargain considering the construction and components used.
I wish I would have asked this before I spent my money.
As always, thanks for any opinions.

 

Marken,
On what manufacturers to go with for durability and craftmanship I would say that Mantua makes some of the best loco's (4-4-0) today. I have one and runs like a swiss clock! And of larger steam loco's as well Mantua and Rivarossi..... If properly taken care of Rivarossi loco's are prime. Being "Big Bucks" loco's with a high price I would recomend Rivarossi, Mantua, Life-Like Proto 2000, Athearn Genesis, and Bachmann Spectrum is at the bottom of the list being they have a few wild heirs floating around... But Rivarossi, and P2K, and Athearn Genesis is the way to go if your wanting to spend alittle money... Hope this helps....

[ 02 August 2001: Message edited by: 7600EM_1 ]

[ 02 August 2001: Message edited by: 7600EM_1 ]</p>

 

I'd go with the Rivrossi myself. I've had other Rivrossi locos and they all ran well. Never had a 4-4-0 though. I would stay away from the Bachman unless its a Spectrim Series model (I dont think they make a Spectrim 4-4-0 ) JMO.....Mike

 

watash, I hear you about IHC. I took the tender off the problem loco to check out the motor. The coupling moved about three revolutions and quit. Motor is dead, so I look at the sheet that came with the loco to find the part numbers and sent IHC an email inquirery about the availability of spare parts.
Roy at IHC emails me back and says the part numbers I sent are not valid. So he suggests I send $14.95 for their spare parts book for Rivarossi (?????) and find the right part numbers. Sort of funny since the two other sheets I have specify the same part numbers. And shouldn't he be able to help instead of trying to pawn off a book?
Anyways, does anyone know where I may be able to find a new or used motor? Is there a spare parts network out there someplace?
Thanks for any info.

 

Marken,
Don't waist your money... I have a total parts book for Rivarossi, AHM, and IHC and if you have a loco serial number or Manufacture number I'll look it up for you and give you the right numbers you need... Let me know in e-mail... heres my address:

yellowstone10@hotmail.com

Also being they did do alot of intermediate changes on the loco's try the best you can to tell me what the motor look like in shape... Being thats the only way to get you the right number! Also, I can and would order you the part if needed... I have an acount with them... Let me know..

 

Ah, the trial and tribulation of model railroading. What could be so hard as to set up some track, hook up two wires and run a train? Talk about humbling.
Lesson # 1. If you take it apart, make darn sure it goes back together the same way. I know now!
My little 4-4-0 sat on the track for about a week before I got back to it. It really bugged me that it wouldn't run. So I picked it up and was gonna put it back in the box when a little voice said try it again. No, it still didn't run but upon closer inspection, the wheels on the tender didn't look right. I finally figured out one side is isolated and the other isn't. The problem was, two were on one side and two on the other. Also, the loco has a pick-up on two of it's wheels.
So, I took it back apart, changed the wheels so they were on the right way, put it back together and away it went. It still hesitates at slow speeds, but it runs.
I am totally embarrassed for putting you guys through this. Your help was greatly appreciated and helpful, but I just screwed up.

Live and learn!

 

Marken,
We all have to learn some time or another so.. Your welcome from my end... If anything else comes to give you troulbe give me a yell in e-mail... You should have my adddress but if not and in case.....

yellowstone10@hotmail.com

I'll be around....