Well it seems there are no negatives to the whole switch that I can see. I spent some time perusing photos over at z central station and did not realize how many nice layouts there are out there. When I head to Denver after Thanksgiving I will be picking up some early Christmas presents. Perhaps a loco and a few cars and track to get the old creative juices flowing. I am not busy at all at work right now (wish I was) so I am going to take some time today and start track planning and start a new thread here for comments. I have a considerable amount of space to work with but I don't want to use TOO much of it:tb-biggrin: Keep an eye out for the new thread.
John, I bought all of my track and some rolling stock from our forum sponsor, Z Central Station. :tb-rolleyes: I've also been spreading it out a little with our other advertisers, Feather River, and Wig-Wag. :tb-biggrin: I'm also slumming a bit on eBay but I expect these other hot shots to pick me off on most of the stuff I want (boxcars). :tb-hissyfit::thumbs_down: Everyone please stay away from eBay for the next few hours. Charlie
I will probably buy most of my stuff online as well. However, a trip to Caboose Hobbies has the added benefit of being able to TEST the equipment before I get it home to make sure it works properly. It is not likely there will be any problems but I can get hands on for the first time which is invaluable. Besides, it gives me a chance to spend an inordinate amount of time in there. I will be in Denver for 4 days so that means I will visit approximately 9 times, or 3 per day. I will have an entire Sat and Sun and Mon evening. My waller is actually beginning to smoke right now LOL.
John, Z scaler smoking their wallets its a normal occurrance. Its to make up for the lack of smoke in the steamers and diesels. If you can buy your first engine from your local hobby shop, its probably the best. You dont want to have a bad engine at the beginning. Its unlikely, but you dont want the headache. Then there is the I want it now factor, wich is also not good for the wallet. You may end up buying more then you plan.
john, when you go to caboose be sure and bring your camera. there are some remarkable layouts in the store (all scales) that will give you great ideas and are just a joy to look at. if you meet Dave Etchells (manager) tell him about your excitement for Z. Caboose is interested in developing their Z stock, but still a little skeptical about how well it will sell (compared to everything else they carry). dave has heard it from me and is very open. they have all the Z locomotive releases from MTL. (i am hopeful that Rio Grande locos will come out sometime this year. but then, aren't we ALL hopeful that "our" favorite roadname will be produced?!!). tell dave why you want to move into Z (especially from another scale). this will confirm what he's been hearing -- and give them more confidence to invest in Z. and tell dave i told you to tell him! he'll get a kick out of that, and it will make the point. i don't know when their pre-Christmas sale is -- but you might just hit it just right. that's always a help. have fun. dave freehling canon city, co
I'll do that. I'll have my camera anyway since Denver will be a stop after a week in Vegas at a convention. I was stained at the USAF Academy in Colorado Springs for a couple years before I moved to SC and have been to Caboose numerous times. I never did look at Z stuff though. I was at one point considering building an On30 lumbering layout due to low cost and the ability scratch build so much. They have a great On3 layout at the back that is swamp themed and I really like the nice N scale layout near the front of the store.
Hello John, I'm not on this site very often as I am a Moderator over on Z Central Station. Come join us. I have read all your postings and the postings of others. I also have some photos here on Trainboard you may be interested in. Look for Socalz44. Basically the answer is yes to all your queries. DCC is up and running with little or no issues at all in Z. Many companies have made great gains in loco motor reliability and hauling power. It is not uncommon to see a GP35 pulling 30+ cars at any train show you go to. Personally I've seen two GP35 pull 60 cars with no problems. You state you like scenery. Check out my photos here, and at Z Central Station. I think you will find that scenery in Z is 'bigger', better, and more realistic than the other scales. On ZCS we have a thousands of photos on file showing all facits of Z. Not to mention the Forum section which will answer all you questions. All scales have their own plusses and minuses. I think the the biggest plus for Z is that if you like scenery you can't do better. Rolling stock, and availability of same, is not an issue. The minus for Z would be a couple: Size. You will probably become a member of the dorky magnifying goggles club before long. Just putting a boxcar on the track is problematic some times. The other is yard switching. Although a Z loco can creep along at seemingly impossibly slow speeds, getting these locos through a series of connected turnouts in a yard a slow speed can be bothersome. The 'hand of God' will have to be used sometimes. I went to a Marklin train show in France years ago. Behind the Marklin Z display was a man stationed every two meters to make sure that everthing ran smoothly. Even at the N modules they had a man every 3 meters. Today, if you want to simply give Z a try I would send you to MTL MicroTrack. Marlin electrics pieces are sometimes frustrating. My home layout is 70 sq. ft. and I don't have any problem with MTL turnouts for example. If you want to hand lay everything and install your own motors to turnouts and such, and are willing to make this scale a life long hobby then do so. Handlaying is the ultimate art and my hat's off to all those participants. We have many Code 40 folks, and smaller, in Z scale. Hope this has helped a bit. Cheers, Jim CCRR
Here is a question I am hoping someone can answer for me. Can 2 MTL GP9s, or a couple of F units, or the GP35s pull a train of say 15-20 cars up a 2.4% grade?
Haven't tried it with that grade myself, but a single F7 in good running order can pull 60 cars on a flat surface and we've pulled 130 cars with 5 GP35's (averages to 26 cars each) also on the flat. I would think it probably could do this. For modules we try to limit grade to 2% as a rule of thumb. AZL SD70M's and GP7's have traction tires on them. That might help. Randy
John, Tony B of Wasatch club has 4% grade and can run two GP35 with 21 cars. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTKcyLVIM68"]YouTube - wasatch z club video #2[/ame]
Hi John, why not start with a small module of say 18" or 24" x 36" or 48" and have tracks that go off the ends of the module. You can use those tracks as sidings now, by just putting track bumpers, and have a loop of track inside for continuous running. Later on, you can build more modules to connect and make your layout larger. With the small module, you will find that it takes a year or more to detail out the way you want it. Also, being small, you can put it on a towel on the dining room table or coffee table, and work on it where it's warm, then put it up when done. Later you might build more modules you like better, then rip up the track and rework the first module to better suit your desires, without having to throw out a whole layout. Jud rework modules as needed over the years without having to tear out the whole thing like is often done in larger scales. Also, working in modules allows you to have a diorama that you can take out in the sun for photographing special models down the road. If you use one of the standards like Z-Bend Track, later you can take your module to a show and connect up with other people for running real long trains. You can maybe have 1 or 2 ZBT modules then interface to other sizes as needed at home to fit them in. A lot can be said about small modules to start with. Here is a picture of my small 2' x 3' module that I built a Timesaver Switching Puzzle on for fun. It connects up to Z-Bend Track standard modules for continuous running: Here is a small end module I am working on that is just 2' x 2' for connecting to the Timesaver module, and I can run 2 trains at a time: This is some of the scenery I put on the above end module, using only 3" x 12" of the available scenery space, with room for lots more: Here is the other small end module I am working on, connected to the other end of my Timesaver module: What is neat about using the ZBT standard at home, is you can turn your modules 180 degrees as desired, and change the total look of your home layout. Just set them up against the wall and enjoy for several months while you super detail as desired, then rotate one of the modules, and start working with it. If you had put sidings and industry around both side, you have different operations you can do, so you never get bored.
Robert, That is one heck of an idea. I do plan on making the layout modular. Roughtly 2'x4' sections. I would like to make at least 1 Z Bend module but I do not want a double track main over the entire railroad so it would have to be part of a passing siding and I could interface back from either end. I love the idea of being able to rotate a module around. I had considered doing modular similar to that but since I can not use the center of my room I did not think it would be feasible. If I place the layout high enough you will never know there is track on the back side of the ridge. I am SERIOUSLY going to consider this option as that is one of the best ideas I have heard in some time. Sort of like using double sided boxcars lettered for different roads. Basically doubles your rolling stock with actually doubling it. Excellent modules BTW. And seeing that image has got me thinking about how things look different now. Until I saw that I would not have thought a turnback curve could work in a space only 24" wide. It is going to take some time for me to really comprehend the sheer space that the other scales take up in comparison. Everytime I plan for a turnback loop I alway use 18" minimum radius in N and 24" in HO And since I am thinking about it, in just 2 days time this thread has become 4 pages long already. A huge tribute to the Z scale community's willingness to help a prospective member. Simply amazing.
I'm a devoted N-scaler who really enjoys all of the Z models, ingenuity,and skill of the "Z scalers"....If I was starting trains now or switching scales it would be to ZEEEEE!! Z has come a long way and has a very long way to go but it has several more advantages to me than N.
LOL! if your so devoted, you woun't have to say it. Its ok to play both side of the fence. Just start with a little layout like Robert Ray.
Hey John, Welcome aboard the Z scale train, we have some fun modelers that frequent these sites, and some very inspiring work to see......... you came to the right place... As for your question about Z scale and grades.... well i hve a few grades on my Wasatch Z Club modules, and heres the "up's & down's" of it...LOL Both MTL and AZL locos are very stought, and can easily pull the grades with 20-30 cars (dependesupon the length and wieght of the cars). If you run DCC and consist your locos, then you cn pull even more...... so pulling the grade is not the problem. The problems with Z grades are these; try and avoid any curves prior to and after the grade, and don't try and pull the grade in a spiral. The resulting physicas involved with more than 20 cars will force the cars off the curve due to the "straight line" effect. Bottom line, try and keep the grades as straight as possible, and you can pull as many cars as you have loco power to pull..... there realy is no limit to the pulling power in Z, as long as the track is pretty straight. Second problem is one that real railroads have, so there is a solution. When you come down off long grades, the wieght of the cars and the slack between them comes crashing forward on the locos when the tail of the train clears the summit of the grade. The longer the train, the more "slack lash" you get when their combinde wieght come over the top. To solve this, you have to run your train like an engineer... With my DCC set, i make slight adjustments to my speed as i approch the grade, as well as when i clear it. By doing this, you can avoid the "slack lash", and the resulting possibility of cars come uncoupled due to it. As far as Z modules is concerned.... well Robert could not have explained the benehits any better......... modules are the way to go.. Tony B... Wasatch Z Club PS: John posted a link to some of my crappy videos, but there are more if you want to see them, and all are pulling my grades........there n this site under videos.:tb-cool:
John-- just had to add my two cents... I hope to add a couple of pictures- previously posted- to show a standard zbend 3'X3' module with completely different themes on either side. Also the ability to have independant trains running on a module that can be hooked up to others for looong trains. On the west side BELOW main tracks is a train that passes Mesa Verde, the lumber train is a figure 8 on the upper level--sometimes I run a two sided train(as you mentioned) and with the tunnels, it looks like two distinctly different trains. Hope this works, Best, Fred
That is funny. Tony, Thanks for the the info on the grades. I am planning on running no curves on grades smaller than 18" radius so I doubt I will have a problem with any stringlining of cars. I may not end up having any grades anyway. Fred, Yes that does help. It is hard to believe you can get so much on each half of the 3'x3'. Those are both well thought out and contain a lot to look at in only 4.5 square feet.
Yes, double sided modules are a great way to completely change the scene on your home layout, in just a few minutes time. This is one side of my 2' x 3' Timesaver/Trestle module. I used high mountains as a view block, and by high, I only mean 7": And here is the other side, a Timesaver switching puzzle completely hidden in the scenery. There are 5 grain elevators on this side of the module:
Robert, Very nice module. It is still hard for me to grasp the whole space occupied by Z. I am sure it will help once I pick up some track and some equipment. It will help me visualize the size much better for sure. Tomorrow morning I will have some time to post a track plan over in my other thread for you to comment on.
