Lawsuit results - MTH vs. Lionel

Keith Jun 9, 2004

  1. Keith

    Keith TrainBoard Supporter

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  2. ilovetrains

    ilovetrains E-Mail Bounces

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    Oh.. seems that MTH is trying to sue everyone. I'm not to happy with them threatening Broadway limited, especially since MTH trains suck! Hopefully he'll take that money and put it to good use, like trains that actually work and last, along with adding parts to their parts department. MTH is the reason I left O Scale.
     
  3. Keith

    Keith TrainBoard Supporter

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    For me, MTH is why I got started!
    Know someone who had a Lionel Big Boy, with the IR sound system. That thing spent more time traveling between Colorado and Lionel, each time, they indicated it was fixed, or worked fine, and when it got back, it was still the same POS that left.

    Locomotive owner and hobby shop that kept sending it back were NOT happy. As a result, Hank refuses to stock current Lionel locomotives, but will special order one if someone wants one. He's got plenty of MTH available though, because it sells fairly fast, looks good and is cheaper than Lionel.

    Do agree though, Parts lack a lot to be desired.
    As does the PS-2.0 download site!!

    [ 09. June 2004, 10:40: Message edited by: Keith ]
     
  4. jacobmarley

    jacobmarley TrainBoard Member

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    I do like Lionel trains, but right is right. Design theft is a crime which in my opinion is just this side of puppy abuse. I have no problem with MTH trains or their right to sue someone who has illegally taken from their business. Shame on Lionel for either being that underhanded or that stupid.

    Ilovetrains, I don't understand why you don't feel they have the right to protect their business just because you don't like their trains. One has nothing to do with the other.

    quote: "Oh.. seems that MTH is trying to sue everyone. I'm not to happy with them threatening Broadway limited, especially since MTH trains suck!"
     
  5. ilovetrains

    ilovetrains E-Mail Bounces

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    jacobmarley, I didn't say they didn't have a right, in the Lionel case, my problem with them is the case they are trying to get on Broadway Limited, inc.

    My problems with MTH were poor paint quality and I had a few locos that died within minutes. Sent a frieght car back for repairs on a part that was broken, took over two months and all they did was paint a new piece and applied, but didn't realize the paint was different. Stood out big time. The only thing I like about MTH is the smoke and the sound, which both rock.
     
  6. jacobmarley

    jacobmarley TrainBoard Member

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    I can't comment on their loco quality. I have only bought Lionel and K-Line. (One system makes it much easier for me... Command Control) Their cars are OK. I still have no animosity. In this day and age of frivilous lawsuits, I'm pretty much thinking these are understandable.

    That stinks about your problems with their products. I know that has really soured me on a few companies. Especially when you can compare with some truly exceptional O scale models. After I bought an Atlas cupola caboose I swore I'd never buy another company's caboose. They are truly the most amazing cars I have.
     
  7. traingeekboy

    traingeekboy TrainBoard Member

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    Thats pretty crazy stuff. You have to think of it in the right perspective though. Companies are often thought of as individual people by consumers, but really they are large organizations that have many people intereacting on any particular project. Usually the right hands has a vague idea what the left hand is doing but thats about it.

    So when you say "I don't like blank company, etc." You have to realize that you are sort of refering to the company as if it was a person, when that is not the case at all.

    In this case Lionel contracted with another company to do design work for a steam engine. Based on what was reported, it was the partner company in korea that was unscrupulous. What got stolen was some designs for parts of engines and all the theft happened in Korea.

    You have to think of it in terms of how Lionel must be reacting to this. They plan a project and get a product out on the market. Then they find out too late, that a bunch of the design work they used was stolen, and they are going to have to pony up a portion of their sales as damages. Ouch!

    I'm sure Lionels management team is feeling the heat on every level because they hired a bunch of crooks to do some design work for them.

    And whats even more interesting is exactly how much money this law suit is worth. And that is just a small piece of the cake in the model railroad market.

    So when you think in terms of that much money, one can't help but also come full circle to the whole UP trademark issue and realize that UP is being smart for charging us model railroaders a fee to use their trademark.

    ::::::Dons flame suit for dragging the dead and smelly corpse of UP trademark issues into room again:::::::::
     
  8. pjb

    pjb E-Mail Bounces

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    Great Story, GEEKY,- only trouble is that LIONEL LLC, couldn't find another sucker to swallow it among twelve citizens tried and true, in the S.Michigan circuit of the U.S. Court.

    The only thing wrong with the decision is that
    unlike their Korean partners in crime , who will
    be breaking rocks for a while, they will manage
    to escape with only monetary losses.

    However, given the size of the award , the limited capitalization of the company , and the amount of their legal fees, there is every hope that MIKE's TRAIN HOUSE will now own LIONEL.
    Good-Luck, PJB
     
  9. Greg Elems

    Greg Elems Staff Member

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    I hope MTH doesn't get their meat hooks in Lionel. I have no love for either company but MTH has pulled some sneaky stunts clear back in the days he worked for Williams. Lionel has been over priced for their equipment for years. Lionel and MTH are what made me go back to 2 rail O scale and S scale with the code 110 wheels and Kadee couplers. I expect Lionel will appeal the ruling, which is in their right so it isn't over till the fat lady sings.

    Greg
     
  10. traingeekboy

    traingeekboy TrainBoard Member

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    I'm not quite sure I follow what you mean. Regardless of intent they obviously are culpable in this and are paying the price as they should.

    Maybe I misunderstood the article. Was Lionel knowingly in on the theft of designs, or did they just end up with stolen designs?

    About the damage awards, most of the model railroad companies are pretty secretive about production runs and such so most of us aren't really sure how well they do. In a court case they have to present evidence to justify a substantial sum of money was made, so Lionel must have made a fortune off those stolen designs. Thats pretty interesting to see as a bystander.
     

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