Looking to start this layout design tonight. Planning on a full scale drawing then pounce wheel onto plywood to set the track. Planning on 5 ply 1/2" thick plywood, blocked to height. As a carpenter, i will have no problem getting the blocking to work. My chop saw can give me 1/4 degree increments to cut blocks to fit nicely. Already have a good level and in incline gauge for the end. Sorry for the picture. I am a very Tactile kinda guy and cannot figure out the various computer based track layout programs to save my life!! It is Ho. The table is 5'10" wide X 10' long. I have scale mock ups of all the available switches (Peco) as well as all of the radii that we will need. Planning on working in gradual curves to lead into the rest of the curves. Original double figure 8 was designed on fit on a 4X8. We expanded it so that the radius of the inside curves will be 22". Only one less than 22" will be the run around siding inside the right curve. That will be for a couple of factories and smaller freight cars. The yard is set up so that the first track will be for Assemble and Dissemble. The second is the yard lead. The rest are for storage. We could use the lead interchangeably as an A/D since a train could pull in one, unhook the engine, pull forward then back up to a waiting set of cars. Pulling the train out will leave the other track as a lead to not block the yard. I am sure that the final layout of the yard will change some as we do everything to actual size. (ie, more/less tracks, different curve locations, different bridge switches (probably not calling them the right name)) Do we have enough/too many switches to bridge between tracks in the yard? I was kinda guessing here based on other layouts that we have seen. Which are the best switches to use for these (small (SL-92), Medium(SL-95) or large (SL-98)) to give us the smoothest operation and allow 2" on center track separation in the yard (big curves are 3" on center). Turntable was just kinda scribbled into the corner. May not be enough room and definitely not enough money in his budget right now. May just be a three way switch leading into a 3 stall house. Suggestions please! Be gentle, quite the newby here. Thank you so much for all your help/suggestions!! Stew
I am puzzled by your designation of track #2 as lead. I generally think of lead as a track that runs OFF the parallel yard tracks and accesses all or nearly all of them. Storage tracks? Lowest priority in a yard. What about CLASS tracks, places to sort out cars going to various destinations? This is a schematic to show the functions of a moderately basic yard. Train can come in from mainline in either direction to arrival/departure track, without interfering with switcher which may be on lead. Loco can cut off. If train is heading map west (loco on left end of train in this diagram) loco can go out momentarily onto main to run around train and get via crossover to loco track(s). (Having a separate "thoroughfare" track to allow runarounds without fouling the main would be a plus, but not absolutely necessary if main is not too heavily trafficked.) Switcher can run from lead in and out of arrival/departure and class tracks to classify cars, without blocking main. Lead allows switcher a place to pull cars without backing into main... Switcher can classify incoming cars into 1. through cars continuing in same direction- perhaps leave them on A/D track, or temporarily assign one of the class tracks as track for that "classification." 2. cars going that same direction but for a destination short of the next major class yard. 3. cars destined for local delivery near the yard. 4. cars to be interchanged from this yard to another railroad. From the CLASSES on class track, switcher can makeup: 1. next westbound through train 2. westbound peddler freight making pickups and drop-offs between this yard and next "major yard." (The "next" yard is not actually modeled but train is operated "as if." 3. cars to be delivered locally 4. transfer run to nearby interchange with a foreign railroad.
Stew, I would have two main concerns with the layout: 1) At 5' 10" wide, the reach into the center will be 35" and you will find that to be out of reach and your son would need to climb on the layout to fix any derails. 2) It appears you have some elevated track and I don't believe you have sufficient distances to achieve the required heights at a reasonable incline. Will the layout be accessible from all four sides? It would be great if you could provide a diagram of the room it will be in with the locations of all doors, windows and anything that cannot be blocked (circuit panel, hot water heater etc).
Hey Ken, Thanks a bunch for the input!!!!! This is the type of constructive thought process input that I need!! First, it sounds like i should be calling the extra track class tracks instead of storage. I was planning on that as far as intent goes. Not having a huge table meant that the trains would be going in one direction on the mainline. Roughly indicated by arrows on mainline. That allows us to back into spurs drawn in. My thoughts for a lead running the length of the A/D track was two fold. 1) allowing us to access any part of the row of cars just delivered and 2) to allow as an additional A/D track. So I could have a consist ready to go one either track. My son pulls into the other A/D line with a full train. Leaves it, pulls forward then backs into the other, leaving me to disassemble it into the "class" tracks (probably should have called them that from the get go ) Having two full tracks....with access to all the class tracks will allow us to use either interchangeably. The direction of the mainline (not wanting to reverse trains when we get back on as well as needing to closely match the vertical height of the main leaves me with driving around the back of the table to get back onto the mainline. That extra track (up by the "roundhouse" of sorts) could function as my yard lead allowing me access to all class tracks as well as being able to get to the other side of the class track via the other A/D line. Thoughts? Thanks again for the input/time Ken!! Stew
Hey Paul. Thanks for your time man!!! It's kinda funny, we have been giving both of your concerns a lot of thought. 1) I read that 30" is about the standard for a reach. I put him on a step stool and he is able to reach the center now. While only 10, he is already 5' tall. Definitely breed 'em big in this family! LOL There are also no switches in the center of the table. My thought (Please please correct me if you disagree) was that the switches would be the biggest cause of derailments. 2) The original layout (don't remember which site we got it off of) was designed for a 4X8 table. I expanded the mainline to cover roughly 4'8" X 9'. That way we can have a 22" radius inside curve. That means (I think) that the incline planned originally will now be less. I was guessing somewhere in the 3% max area (knowing that the prototypical guys will be going crazy) with room for a gentle lead in to the incline. With the curves added, he knows that he will not be pulling huge trains, but also knows that we don't have room......yet......for a huge track. The trade off for an interesting track with things to do and places to go was not having a flat track to pull monster trains. 3) The table will be accessible from three sides all the time. Also, it is mounted on 9 smooth running casters where it pulls out from the wall easily. I can do it smoothly with 1 finger. We were planning on mounting the control panel on the front of the table, right in front of the freight yard to be able to see, disconnect cars and fix derailments where I "thought" they would be most likely to happen. Thanks so much for your thoughts Paul. If you agree/disagree, have other suggestions, please please keep 'em coming! I would rather figure this all out while we are playing with paper instead of track. Thanks!! Stew
Funny you should bring this up as I'm remodeling my freight yard right now to create an A/D track, switch lead, one more classification track, and additional caboose tracks. The first thing that jumped out of me while looking at your diagram is that your yard tracks are curved. It is difficult to couple/uncouple on curved tracks. How about sliding the entire yard (or most of it) to the left so that most of the yard tracks will be straight? Keep us posted on your progress! John
Hey Josta, I hadn't thought of that. I just went out to the table and experimented. I have a programming track with a 16" radius and laid out some flex track with our proposed 22" radius. Disconnecting is not hard, it is actually connecting that is not smooth at all! The connectors are still following the truck on the curve and miss each other. Good point and excellent idea! If I slide the whole main line to the right, then bring the entrance farther around the curve, then I can bring most of the yard onto the straight front of the table. That will mean that a siding that we were planning on (mill or something on a "proposed" mountain will have to me moved/re-engineered but it negates a HUGE problem that we would have had. Thanks Josta!!!! You have my little brain working overtime now! Thanks, Stew
The advantage a curved yard gives you is length, as you will pick-up six or so linear feet by curving one end of the yard. My hidden staging yard is built the same way. Now I can operate much longer trains. Josta, as he has pointed out, it doesn't work to well for actual switching moves. Couplers don't line up. The funny thing about this I had some down time over the weekend and put a video into the boob tube. I was watching a Pentrex Train Video, of a switch crew somewhere on Donner Pass and they had to physically line up the couplers so they would match, when coupling on a curve. Happens to the big boys...all the time. Not so unrealistic. I do agree sliding the switching area, back around the curve will help but may I suggest that you plan on doing your switching on the straight section of the yard and allow the length of the yard to remain the same. Nothing more frustrating to a switching crew then not having enough storage track to make-up a train. Never mind and make the moves...safely. After reviewing your plan may I suggest using less crossovers and indulge yourself in a switch ladder at each end of the yard. A run through yard. This will allow you to take advantage of the linear feet in your yard to make up longer trains.
Ken covered the yard design very well and Josta pointed out coupling issues on the curve. My thought is to make full use of your ten foot board length by using the full length for your yard with one of two possibilities. Possibility 1 - extend the yard spurs as much as possible to create fairly long yard tracks. I think this would yield the best results. You may even be able to reduce the congestion on the right side, create a longer yard lead and use a straight ladder for your yard. Possibility 2 - if the length of train(s) is going to be rather short you may be able to use a double ended yard by connecting to the left side of the layout. In either case the yard is close to the edge of the layout and will make switching duties very easy. Jerry
Is this any better? thoughts.....suggestions.......criticisms? Thanks a TON for all your help everyone!!!!! Stew
There really is no wrong answer Stew. The folks here at TB will help in any way to improve functionality, realism and most of all to meet your wants / druthers. I'm not sure you need all the crossovers in the middle, now that you have a long dedicated lead and access to all yard tracks. This design will also give you run around capabilities. Most switching will be done from the right side yard lead; however you could use the main to do some switching on the left if needed. If you're happy with this arrangement then I would say well done! Jerry
Jerry put it very well. And I agree with him regarding the crossovers in the middle of the yard. You could save yourself money and frustration by eliminating them. Not sure why you'd want them but I'd be the last one in line to try and stop you. Your yard (HO) now has the capacity to handle, six maybe seven train cars. You might squeeze in eight freight cars. Is this the length of trains, you will be satisfied running? I had a model railroad similar to this design and had hours of fun playing trains. A great kids layout. Again, after reviewing your layout plan, I think Jerry mentioned the grades to get up and over each other. It appears you will need to gain three train heights to get over each of the tracks on the main. Unless the bottom one is a 90 degree crossing. Best of luck.
Thanks Jerry, There have already been some great ideas and room for improvement from you guys. MUCH appreciated and needed! That was why I redrew the yard and moved the mainline incorporating some of these awesome ideas. I just didn't want to close the discussion or come across as being closed minded where I thought that it was as good as I/We could get it. Thank you so much for your help. Stew
Hey Rick, Thanks for jumping in! If there are a certain number of cars that my son will be able to run, based on size of table, then he will be fine with that. He is a pretty easy going kid in regards to that. My only thought with the switches in the middle (please correct me if my thought is wrong!!) was to be able to possibly have two sets of cars per classification spur and be able to jump into the middle of them to grab a car/cars. Is this a bad thought? Is it impractical? It is not as though he/we have the cars (or the capacity for that matter) to have a train of 10 or 20 (or more ) of the same container car or coal car that I see you guys running on You Tube. Ours will be more of a cobbled together set of random cars. My thought was that jumping into a line of those (leaving the space in between of course) to be able to grab what was "needed" for the next train would be a good thing verses pulling the whole line around onto the lead. Is this totally off base? Is that not the way it would be done? LMK your thoughts Thanks again! Stew
Pulling the whole line onto the lead and shoving the car(s) where you want them is the way it is done; however it can be done other ways. Given the few cars involved I think it will add to the operational interest to pull the whole line of cars onto the lead. BTW Paul should be given the credit for mentioning the issues concerning grades. Thanks Rick. Jerry
Stew, I put the 'figure 8' into Anyrail to see what the heights and grade would be. The grades do not exceed 3%. In the center, there are 3 heights: 0, 4 and 8" This will go up a bit when I put in the turnouts as they should be level.
Yes. I understand a brakeman normally stands near the clearance point of the yard track switch. When a cut of cars on the class track is to be broken up, it is not generally uncoupled back where the car is located on the track. To do that, the brakeman would have to walk way back in the yard, in between tracks. Rather all the cars on the track are pulled up the car where the uncoupling is to be done is near the clearance point of the class track. The brakeman uncouples the car at that point and the cut is pulled forward onto the lead. Say the string of cars was on class track 2 and you wanted to put one car on class track 1. Since the uncoupling has been made, the cars that were behind it are still on track 2 and the car to be switched out is the last car on the string being pulled out onto the lead. The switchman throws the switches so the string of cars can be pushed into track 1. The string is pushed into track 1 just far enough for the car needed to be uncoupled. It is NOT pushed all the way back into track 1 as far as it will go to leave plenty of room between the switch and the track 1 car. Rather it is uncoupled just at the clearance point of track 1. The brakeman signals the engineer by hand signals if this is the old days, or by radio in the not-so-old days. The car for track 1 is uncoupled. If the rest of the cars on the string need to go back to trck 2, the switcher pulls the string forward, the switch is thrown for track 2, and the switcher backs into 2, pushing back the cars that are still there. It is easier to move the cars that stay on track 2 up to the clearance point to make the cut (uncoupling) and push them back again, than to required the brakeman to walk way back in the yard to make the cut without them being moved. While this is done to simulate the way switching is done in "life size" railroading, it may also be easier on the model since there can ONE uncoupling device for the track right at the clearance point, or if uncoupling with a coupler-pick or by hand, the operator doesn't have to reach so much between tracks full of cars.
Looks like you have a number of willing builders...everyone is jumping in. If I can be of any help along the way here then I've done someone a good deed for the day. In answer to your question, as it seems it's been answered. Just steal my fun and take my thunder away. LOL :teeth: The crossovers, in such a short yard don't serve any real purpose. Just so you know as in FYI, I did the same thing in the same layout I've expounded about and found I didn't need them. I used a crossover and 45 degree crossing to go from track one, across track two, to track three. The switches were old, used and abused and extremely temperamental. I pulled them out with great joy and never put anything back to replace them. Keeping it simple (for now) can be the best answer. Oh, and those brakeman never did like walking much but they did their better then fair share....of it.
Thank you Jerry, Ken and Rick. Great explanation!!! Switches erased!! Few hundred bucks saved. The boy will be happy! Paul, Thanks for taking the time to plug that into Anyrail. Am I needing to go 4" between each level? I thought that I had read that 3" was sufficient. Is this wrong? I am just kinda doing a bunch of reading and asking questions so as to hopefully avoid the mess ups that you guys probably hear about all the time. I am not afraid to plead ignorance! LOL Thanks again fellas!! Stew
Mess ups? You mean the ones you heard about as in the ones we've made? :startled: Just a word of advice on the grades. I would suggest you do not exceed a 2% gradient. Translated 1/4 inch ruse per each linear foot of rise. A four inch clearance top of rail to bottom of bridge will work. If you are planning to run double stacks you might want to check out how tall they are. I hate it when a train car doesn't clear the scenery and jack knifes the train. :wideeyes: You are more then welcome. Now go have some fun~!
