LIGHTED GOOSENECK WAREHOUSE LIGHT IN Z ????

Zscaleplanet Sep 17, 2021

  1. tjdreams

    tjdreams TrainBoard Member

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    I have bent small Brass tubing before but not quite that small.
    Bending tubing that small, to a tight radius you will want to use a tubing bender with a die that the tube wraps around to keep it from deforming and bulging out on the sides at the bend, similar to that used in bending brake tubing for on a car.

    You can try making one by milling a round grove (use a ball end mill) that is the same diameter as your 304 tubing and at least 1/2 the tubing diameter deep around a SS rod that is the diameter of the bend you want.

    Also SS will work harden as you bend it. So you will want to make the bends in one smooth continues operation. Stopping and starting will likely cause it to split or brake at the bend.

    David
     
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  2. Zscaleplanet

    Zscaleplanet TrainBoard Supporter

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    Scott,
    Yeahhhh, that is going to be part of the challenge here…:(

    David,
    I know exactly what you’re referring to regards to a tubing bender holding the radius. This stuff is hypodermic material so I am questioning how flexible it’s really going to be. Collapsing may not be a problem as much as cracking or breaking in two.

    If the gooseneck cannot be achieved I may just go for a straight tube appearance with the shade hanging on the end. There were some warehouse lights back in the day they were of this nature. But the gooseneck would be the icing on the cake especially in Z-scale.
     
  3. mdvholland

    mdvholland TrainBoard Member

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    https://ngineering.com/tubing_bending.htm
     
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  4. kimvellore

    kimvellore TrainBoard Member

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  5. Zscaleplanet

    Zscaleplanet TrainBoard Supporter

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    EXCELLENT INFO !!! Thanks!!
    This is good info for anybody working with the scale to add to their knowledge base.

    All the more reason why I enjoy posting questions to the “team” on this forum.
     
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  6. Zscaleplanet

    Zscaleplanet TrainBoard Supporter

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    Just curious if you had any experience with this particular tool??? How well did it work?

    I’m pretty sure I saw it on the shelf at Hobby Lobby. Fire Mountain Beads also has it listed on their website for $12. And I just placed my order the other day for the light hoods for this project from them……:(:(
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2021
  7. rray

    rray Staff Member

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    Solderable Brass EDM Tube that you can feed the positive wire from prewired 0402 LED's through up to about a 3" length, after that the wire stops pushing through:
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/181415056936?hash=item2a3d2e1628:g:vssAAOxyP4dTeYuS

    Sterling Silver 3mm Smooth Round Plain Bead Cap that can be soldered to brass EDM tube:
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/322727463324?hash=item4b240e499c:g:2bQAAOSwRLZT0ltm

    Prewired 0402 Warm White LED's with wire thin enough to slide one conductor through the hole on an 0.9mm OD single hole brass EDM tube up to 3" before resistance makes feeding the wire too difficult:
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/253838108092?hash=item3b19ee25bc:g:ewkAAOSwylhbhoQc

    Wire forming pegboard to bend crookneck and gooseneck lamps once one of the LED wires has been fed through the straight EDM tube.
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/362966042262?epid=2254396783&hash=item5482764696:g:rdgAAOSwHb9ejjzc
     
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  8. Zscaleplanet

    Zscaleplanet TrainBoard Supporter

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    OK, Minor hiccup in this project. The .018 hypodermic tubing arrived. O.D. dimensionally is perfect for Z-scale to represent exterior lighting conduit pipe. However the ID will not allow for two wires to fit through.
    D5FDB02B-FF71-49B5-AE06-A84FF33E0E4F.jpeg

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    ((( I included the Z LED in the pic for the fun of it. )))

    I thought I was pretty sure of my dimensions when measuring and when ordering. However it’s such a small dimension to be working, and we’re talking a nanometer here, which will screw you up.

    I think I’m going to take Robert Ray’s recommendation and pursue EDM tubing.

    Now one comment I would make though, is that the hypodermic tubing did bend quite well and seemed to hold its outer diameter and not crush. Although it would become brittle if one pushed the issue radius too far.

    I will be ordering some EDM tube and will report back once it arrives.
     
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  9. husafreak

    husafreak TrainBoard Member

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    Is it because the hypodermic tubing won’t carry current or because you cannot solder to it that it cannot be used with one wire inside?
     
  10. Zscaleplanet

    Zscaleplanet TrainBoard Supporter

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    I haven’t tried it but I think the hypodermic tubing would accept a single wire being soldered to it.

    However the question is where to solder that wire so it’s not visible. Since the light needs to slip up underneath the hood, it gets complicated as to where to put that wire.

    I was thinking about just simply running a piece of fiber-optic through the tube but I’m not convinced the fiber optics put out enough light. Maybe I’m wrong and should experiment.
     
  11. shamoo737

    shamoo737 Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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  12. shamoo737

    shamoo737 Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    Kind of fuzzy, but it’s a gooseneck
     
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  13. Zscaleplanet

    Zscaleplanet TrainBoard Supporter

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    Indeed it’s a nice gooseneck and that’s quite the scene it’s shedding it’s light on there in front Smith’s bar. Appears the night crowd is just starting to shuffle in. Kind of expect to hear the “Sultans of Swing” playing…..
     
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  14. rray

    rray Staff Member

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    So what I do is cut the tube to length before bending, sand the ends with 600 grit, solder a bump on one end of the tube, fish my LED positive wire through, cut the negative wire 1mm from the LED, and solder that 1mm end to the solder bump very quickly so it don't unsolder from the LED.

    Next I solder a solder bump to the silver bead cap right next to the hole, slide it over the tube, and heat that solder bump so it melts onto the tube solder bump.

    Now I can bend the gooseneck as desired with my pegboard jig. After it is bent, I like to solder a leg of a 4.7K resistor to the bottom of the tube, fill the inside of the lampshade with clear parts or canopy cement, then paint.

    Don't use a 470 ohm, or even a 1K ohm, use 4.7K ohms for a more realistic light intensity, and the life of you LED will be forever. 470 ohm is way too bright and will burn out in a year or so, 1K is also too bright and your LED will last a bit longer, but 4.7K is realistic and don't wash out photos. The current is limited to about 2 milliamps, just enough to turn on the LED, and maximizes it's lifetime.

    Over the decades, I have wasted many hours fighting fiber optics, and with the new micro sized electronics, I have relegated fiber optics to very short uses like locomotive marker lighting and miniature electronic control panel lighting with 0402 LED's on the other side.
     
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  15. SJ Z-man

    SJ Z-man TrainBoard Member

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    If you do go the plastic fiber optic:
    Don’t use CA ! It ‘crazes’ (fractures) thus losing light.
    Drill a hole in the dome end of a T1 (1mm) or 2 or 3 in a T3 (3mm) LED to insert the fiber optic, then use RTV (a.k.a. Silicone) adhesive. They’ll be bright.
    Want more than the fiber wide light at the lamp end? Use a low temperature soldering iron two melt the tip for larger area (tested for the low temperature just enough to melt it first on a practice piece of fiber optic). Or, you can rough up (sand/file) the end of the fiber. Canopy glue works well too.
     
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  16. Zscaleplanet

    Zscaleplanet TrainBoard Supporter

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    I’m circling back to this post to share some ideas and lessons learned for those interested. RVN2001’s suggestion for fiber-optic cable was inevitably what I ended up going with.

    However when using fiber-optic cable, it is not optimal to achieve the gooseneck look. Therefore I settled on a straight conduit pipe look with a 90° elbow and a lampshade mounted on the end. The end result I think are acceptable especially for Z-scale.

    Here’s how I did it, what I used, and the end results:

    So about the time I was in the middle of this project I went to a friends wedding and she was passing out these need fiber-optic glow stick things in lieu of rice. SCORE!!! FREE FIBER OPTIC MATERIAL!!! These may be available at any cheap dollar store or Walmart.
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    244A4D94-9CAC-4615-B683-D99EB74CC66A.jpeg

    I cut a few strands out of this glow stick. Note: your cuts need to be straight and precise on both ends. It’s hard to say if there are varying qualities of fiber optic material. Regardless this was free and I am of the opinion of the fiber-optic quality is sufficient for what I am using it for.

    Next, thanks to Scott on this forum, he suggested bead cabs from Fire Mountain Gems.
    1641C36F-3EBE-4C95-A79B-A329399E12BA.jpeg

    Next comes the slightly tricky part. Bending the fiber optic rod at a 90° angle. Now this goes against conventional wisdom when using fiber optic rod because such a bend does diminish the light output. But I see no other choice but to go this route in order to achieve the desired results. On that note I used my soldering iron which has a digital Temp control capability, and I found that the best temperature to use was 140°.
    1403FB86-84D9-4D3C-AFA0-1001804B9123.jpeg
    I used the very tip of the soldering iron in order to get a nice tight 90° bend. I basically just laid the fiber-optic rod over the very tip and allow it to fall with gravity to form the 90° elbow.

    It took several trials of not melting through and knowing when to pull the fiber optic cable at the right moment. Again you’ll have to use trial and error.
    B702145A-1543-40E0-BB07-0687A7EB455B.jpeg
    Next, I cut the short side back estimating the drop I wanted for the lampshade. You can see I cut it relatively short for a realistic look in the end. You’ll see what I mean with the final pics.
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    Next I used Evergreens canopy glue to secure the bead cap to the fiber-optic cable. There’s two ways to go about this. One is to dab a little glue on the sides of the fiber-optic cable and slide the bead cap on. The next method I have also used which seems to work just as readily, is to drop the bead cap onto the fiber optic cable and then glue from the underside or bowl side of the bead cap. Now this does fill the bead cap with glue but it dries clear and the light will still shine through. In the case of this demonstration I wanted more of the chrome plating to be evident and possibly add more reflective light lampshade. Therefore I dabbed a little glue around the Fiber optic cable and then slid the bead cap down and let it dry.
    A7E7721F-B52D-4432-8451-0629AE82AE91.jpeg
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    As you can see the end results thus far looks pretty good. And the amount of light being project Indians acceptable.
    BBE126B8-612A-490C-865A-95864A0DDDD8.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2021
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  17. Zscaleplanet

    Zscaleplanet TrainBoard Supporter

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    Finally, I painted the rod and lampshade a flat pale green. Obviously whatever color you choose is fine, but TESTORS flat pale green enamel seems to work well for my 1950s or 1960s layout.
    D55C941C-E365-4F7F-9358-B69D20984778.jpeg

    SPECIAL NOTE HERE: At the point of the elbow bend, I had to put on several coats of paint in order to stop the light from breaking through. Fiber optic tubing is very slick on the outer side and it’s hard to get paint to adhere to it. At first when I was using the pale green, it was rather thinned out and I had to keep putting more paint on and it to hide the light, and looked globby. I stirred and shook the pain bottle sufficiently in order to get the paint needed to be. Make sure your paint is nice and thick and two coats should suffice.
    55EA9154-1DE9-4F83-A9C4-25C4A05717F2.jpeg

    NOTE: On this little project, the 2.5MM bead caps Scott suggested were just the perfect size, or might I say acceptable for Z-scale. Sometimes there are certain sacrifices we have to make when working at this ultra small level.

    FINAL CRITICAL NOTE: Make sure to cut a nice long strand of fiber-optic cable to work with. You will find this very important when trying to mount these inside of the building and needing to connect to your light source. I made the mistake of cutting my cables too short in the sawtooth warehouse build. When I needed to connect one of the lamps to the light source, the lamp on the wall twisted to the side because the overall cable length was too short. It’s a mistake I’m living with on the sawtooth warehouse and one that will probably not be noticeable once the building is placed on the layout. But it’s a mistake I will not make again.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2021
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  18. mdvholland

    mdvholland TrainBoard Member

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    Nice lights. Maybe spray with a primer from a rattle can first?

    This technique should work for streetlights as well (?)

    Matt
     
  19. Zscaleplanet

    Zscaleplanet TrainBoard Supporter

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    Hey Matt funny you should mention primer because I actually used primer on the two lights on the sawtooth warehouse. Yes, primer will work. You are correct.

    When I was building the same lights for the sawtooth warehouse, my pale green paint was very thin and watery. For the light in these photos here, I stirred up the pale green and shook it for quite a long time before I used it. It seemed to have a much thicker consistency which I believe helped cover the breakthrough lighting.

    This technique with easily work for streetlights as well. I guess I need to experiment. LOL
     
  20. Doug A.

    Doug A. TrainBoard Supporter

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    Those shiny bead caps are nifty. Reading this thread just cost me $15. :rolleyes:;)
     
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