Back in March Mr. Ray threw down the gauntlet and dared me to try some passenger modeling in Z... Well, the purchase and subsequent remodeling of a new house has eaten ALL modeling time since early April until now. I'm down to some trim work and a Pergo floor in the Kitchen before The Boss releases me... that means it's soon going to be layout time. After going out to Denver for the N Scale Collector, I've gotten a bug to model something with a western flair. Must have been Danneman's layout, and I've been wearing the pages thin on his MR article on a Bedroom sized N scale Rio Grande with the thought in the back of my mind that it would be a cool small layout to do in Z. I'm in the mood for something new... Anyway, I gave in to temptation and ordered an ABA set of M-T F's and a couple freight cars to play with. Rio Grande was sold out, so I went with SF. Guess I'll have to find a set of Marklin passenger cars now and build a Super Chief... or track down the M-T express boxcars, kitbash some REA cars, Marklin baggage car or two... So the journey begins... ;-)
What? Out west? But not Milwaukee Road? Not Northern Pacific? Ha ha. Does this mean you'll be mothballing CGW? What time frame for the D&RGW? Boxcab E50
Hi Mike, the good news is that this week several vendors on ebay began offering the ATSF 6 car streamliner sets for $99. That's as good as it gets in Z, and paying $160 for 6 cars is a normal "Bargain" so I would suggest going that route to get some cars. You might have to buy a couple sets to get the cars you need, then dump the leftovers. Maybe splice a couple baggage cars into an RPO or something. I have been collecting a lot of cars myself, because I want to represent a 4 dome NCL train, with ABA's. I am not going to worry about the fact that not one car in the train would be accurate, because the only part salvageable would be the roofs, and even they need some work. Now a master like you, should be able to come up with something better, but you have some competition, as Dave F. has just completed a DRGW train with FT's out of his F7's. One thing to remember is that in N, almost everything has already been done, but in Z, the field is WIDE OPEN, whatever you do, it's the first time it's been done. :shade: I expect to see great things from you Mike, and who knows, maybe we can turn a few more N Scale greats into Z Scalers along the way. After all, you got into N because it was small, and if the same equipment available in N was also available in Z at the time, you probably would have chose Z from the start!
I think you have sucessfully lightened my wallet even more! Looks like one ATSF set will net me the 4 signature Super Chief cars. Baggage looks close to a few ATSF cars as well, so that will be good. Slumbercoach isn't too useful, but perhaps it can donate it's roof and underframe for casting purposes. The 10-6 and 4-4-2 sleepers will be fun to create. I had just searched all of David F.'s posts here on Trainboard and got inspired. Chris333's photos also helped push me over the edge. Have to check my stockpile of Cd 40 rail tonight. Are you still making those short tie strips for handlaying track, Robert?
I've done quite a bit of Milw, NP, CGW in N scale. Time to sneak out of my comfort zone. ;-) With F's and GP-35's being available, 1960's Rio Grande action is almost a given. But, I'll decide more after playing with some equipment first.
See I told you it would be nicer to fill that basement with many smaller layouts instead of just one. Maybe seeing you do up some F units will get me started on mine.
You win. Actually, I've had enough remodeling for awhile. I don't want to have to finish the basement before building a layout. I don't want to see drywall for another year! A small layout that I can hide upstairs later will help me avoid that. And besides, you seem to be hanging on to all of yours, so I have to build my own now. = (
you're going to have a lot of fun, mike. i'm looking forward to seeing what you model. ATSF was popular up and down the front range of colorado, on the same trackage as Rio Grande, MoPac, and some Rock Island units. welcome to the pool. dave f.
Mike, I can't wait to see what you do in Z. You are one of the best in N and as Robert said earlier anything you do will probably be the first in Z. Again, can't wait to see what you do!
Did some messing around based off Mike Danneman's N scale plan from the March '96 MR. I quickly drew his layout in N scale and shrunk it to Z scale. It was still a little bigger than I wanted, so I shrunk it a bit more... one 2'x3' module in an L with a 2'x3.5' module. The dashed lines are hidden trackage. The dark ghost lines in the background are Danneman's plan so you can see where I tightened it up. (I always pictured Z as about half N, and didn't realize until now that it is closer to 3/4 the size!) Tightest hidden radius is 8.5"... I'm wondering if that will be a problem with passenger equipment. I think the rest of the layout will be OK as visible radius are larger... comments welcome.
I have always liked that layout, it would be cool in Z scale. I think my curves are 8" and doubt passenger cars would look good on them. With your larger curves you should be OK. It's more about the looks and your tight turns are hidden. And don't worry about the grades, those MT F7s can pull a lot! If your gonna have a station, I would grab one of Robert's before they are all gone: http://www.zscalemonster.com/robert-ray/ It's a great kit and can be changed around to look like another RR. Of course you can always scratchbuild ; ) I think the more and more people who push Z scale past the limit, the more people will take Z seriously. Then possibly more and more products. Don't forget a MT GP9 is coming too. I think even with a full size plan in front of you, you'll still be surprised just how small it is. Somehow the smallness makes it look larger than it is. Maybe because your eye's are in there so close, who knows, but I like it. Anyways, keep the pics coming.
Chris- What are you using for track spacing? My normal 1.25" in N translates to ~.9", so that's what I drew it at. I was thinking about bumping it to 1" if I'm going to be running longer cars like passenger equipment on the curves...
I can make the tie strips for you. I also have a "Handlaid Flextrack" jig that spaces the solder ties every 10th tie, and you solder a rail to the ties, then glue it down, flexed as you like. Next you glue down the wood tie strips in between all the solder ties, then use your gauge block to hold the second rail in alignment as you solder it in place. Handlaid flex!
Oh, by the way, we use 1" track centers between ajacent tracks in Z. The Marklin passenger cars will handle the 8.5" radius until you put MTL couplers on, then you would need 10" to avoid derailments. -Robert
I forget what spacing I laid mine at. It is very generous. I think I borrowed a page from my N scale experience, and laid it at 1.25".
On my passing siding the centerlines are exactly 3/4" apart, or about 13 z scale feet. The same spacing the Erie double track main used behind my house according to engineering drawings. No major curves here though. Again I was going for looks, not for running PAX trains. Might want to look up the Western Pacific layout MR built, they were running a bashed Zephyr from Marklin cars, with curved passing sidings.
BTW every super hero need his theme music, here is yours: http://www.nscalesupply.com/Base/9904/Layout15/990415Layout.html :w20z6q:
Marklin equipment, at least, should have no problem with that. IIRC, all their models until the ICE would run on 5-3/4" (!) and 7-1/4" is enough for everything they have, if you ignore looks entirely.
Thanks, I'll have to play with it a little bit tonight. If I bump the minimum radius up to 10" it shouldn't add anymore than 1-2" to the overall dimensions. No big deal. I like your method of laying track! I'll tweak the trackplan and then will know how many linear feet of ties I will need... and get in touch with you. Who's PCB ties are you guys using? I assume the laserties are matched to a certain thickness, and I will have to order those as well. Benchwork certainly won't take long and I'll be ready to move on.
I was googling everything I could think of yesterday trying to find the forsale photos of the layout... thanks for the link! It led me to this page I was thinking of: http://www.nscalesupply.com/Newsletter/LayoutPhotos.html
