I recently purchased the following two slides but need help verifying the identity of each loco. First is supposed to be Michigan-California Lumber #102. Michigan-California didn't have any diesels but did own the Camino, Placerville & Lake Tahoe which did indeed have a 44tonner #102. However the history and pics I've seen indicate #102 is ex CB&Q and was painted from that livery straight to the familiar green and white scheme we all know. Logo on cab don't look right either. Can anyone help? Second we have a 44tonner of the Howard Terminal in Oakland. I can see no number and have no roster info on the Howard Terminal but need to know if this is #9. Again any help is appreciated.
Somehow, with mention of the CB&Q, this sounds vaguely familiar. As if it may have been touched upon here at TrainBoard, somewhere in the past. I wonder if a topic search would turn up anything? Perhaps in the CB&Q Fallen Flag Forum? Boxcab E50
Yes, I believe you are right. IIRC I was asking about this very unit and its history which was confirmed as CB&Q. Then patched as BN #3. Someone even supplied photo reference in a book of this unit in CB&Q colors wearing the BN#3 lettering while on the CP<. Here's the scheme she wore at CP< that we are all familiar with: You can see the reseblence to the CB&Q paint. Also after service on CP< she went to Napa Valley: Finally she wound up at Sims Metal in Richmond: One can follow the paint scheme progression fairly well but I don't see where the black and orange fit.
As for the Howard Terminal unit, if this is #9 she is supposed to be ex Southern Pacific 1904, nee Petaluma & Santa Rosa #1. The tigerstripe paint seems to support this but I have no further pics to compare and don't know if HT had any other 44tonners. I do know #8 is a different type of centercab as it is at the CSRM in all orange.
At least my memory was correct. Sometimes,..... It seems as though to be a railfan, one needs to have a bit of Sherlock Holmes in you. Boxcab E50
I probably supplied the mentioned book reference...the book is Ted Benson's One Track Mind. On page 53 we find a picture of CB&Q/BN #3 in full CB&Q paint leading a CP< train out of the Placerville yards. Here is where things get interesting...according to Ted he took this photo on 24 April 1972...which would mean that Ted took it two full months before the black and orange painted locomotive in John's picture. In comparing the two photos I think your mystery locomotive is indeed the Mich-Cal/CP< #102. That oddball step and handrail arrangement appears on the locomotive featured in both pictures- note how in the picture of the Howard Terminal unit the step ladders are on the ends of the locomotive, while on the #102 they are more centrally located. This detail also shows up clearly in Ted's photo of the unit. Note that somewhere between its CPLT and NVRR days the unit got a second stepladder added on the fireman's side of the rear walkway and the searchlight type headlight replaced with twin sealed beams. Based on a carefull review of my available photos I am about 99% certain that your mystery #102 is the Mich-Cal/CPLT locomotive, and that it got the black and orange paint sometime between 24 April and 27 June 1972. This would mean that the green and white paint came later. Another clue- the CB&Q paint featured only four stipes on each end, with the shorter stripes on the top and the longer stripes on the bottom, the exact opposite of the striping pattern on the green and white scheme. One last clue- Pacific RailNews devoted its February 1995 issue to shortline railroading, which included a several page photo essay by Vic Neves of various western shortlines. Included is a picture he took of the #102 leading a train out of Placerville on 14 March 1977. The locomotive is identified as the #102; the photo is taken from a higher elevation with a telephoto lense; and the light is way less than ideal. Even given all of these I can tell that the paint job is definately NOT green and white...it appears to be more of a dark green or black and orange. The striping and color patterns are the same as the green and white, but this is definately not green and white! One of the things that I have learned the hard way is that you have to be flexible with your beliefs...the second you think you finally have things all figured out here comes something (like your mystery picture) that upsets the little world you have created and become comfortable with. This appears to be one of those events. As for the Howard Terminal- the 1978 edition of the Shortline Railway Guide lists the Howard Terminal Railway as "A switching line with one diesel engine operating 2 miles of track in the Port District of Oakland, CA. Owned by the Howard Terminal Company." Jeff Moore Elko, NV
Jeff, You've come through once again! Thanks for all the info and research. This is exactly the reason I bought the slide. It is from a reputable dealer and not a paint scheme I had seen before on this loco. I had to have it. As for the Howard Terminal unit, I'm pretty sure its the one I'm lookin for. Just hoping someone could help nail it down a little more for sure. As you may notice, It seems I come up with a little mystery bout every 3 or 4 months. Makes things a ton of fun!
