Paul, I sent you a message. As far as getting fired unless you do something really bad it does not happen that much (at least on the BNSF). Mostly people that screw up for minor things have to sit around the yard office and tell people what they did and how not to do it. Kevin
Ah, alternative handling. The carriers figure you will learn more by wasting a day collecting signatures and such than by collecting job insurance for a month... Mileage... basic day(130 miles) is a standard 8 hour day(road service). Most crew districts are longer than 130 miles (mine is 142/141). You have to "run off" your miles before you start overtime. Standard is 16.25 miles/hour, so my 142 miles are run off at 8 hrs, 44 min. After that, overtime starts at 24.4 miles/hour. On the longer districts, you can't run off the miles in less than 12 hours, so you will not collect overtime unless you are DOL and have not been relieved. Rate of pay per mile varies depending on what service you are in. Yard service has the highest rate, then road switcher, local and through freight. Yard service and some RS and local jobs are based on a 100 mile day, with overtime after 8 hrs. I won't get too involved in this, but there are a lot of penalty claims, etc... Usually when the trainmaster/yardmaster or crew management screws up, you submit a claim, it gets declined(most of the time) and if it's valid, it gets paid on the "5 year" plan... I just got paid a claim from 2002 a few halves ago...
I have one more big question to ask about in this topic; I've heard quite a few stories of RR applicants being rejected because they weren't qualified for the job or didn't have the experience necessary. I'm wandering what more I can do to get myself enough experience to get hired relatively easily. I'm already volunteering at a working RR museum and have become familiar with the basics of railroading in most of its various fields. My grades aren't aweful, I'll have an associates degree when I graduate high school, and I'll be attending NARS. Is there anything more I could/should be doing to land myself a job at the location of my choosing when the spot opens up?
I dont know that having any prior railroad experience is going to help you in any way. Most of the new hires in recent years,myself included,on the BNSF had no prior railroad experience.Most railroaders are loathe to leave their jobs, go to another occupation and then come back to railroading. They have lost all of their company seniority by then and have to start at the bottom of the ladder again. Seniority means a great deal on the railroad, It means the difference between holding a decent paying job or a crummy 3rd shift switch engine. Railroads want to train you to their specifications, not by what you may have learned somewhere else.Dont get me wrong, the carriers DO hire people who have prior experience but not that often. One of the guys I worked with, and he had about a month more company seniority than myself, had been with the U.P. for about 20 years but left them(divorce related)and got hired by the BNSF. As to getting to a terminal area of your choice, it's a toss-up. You can be hired for that terminal, or you can be hired for another terminal and transfer into the terminal of your choice, dependent on your seniority. If it's a high seniority district and the terminal is a small one chances aren't that good since smaller terminals usually have "cush" jobs that require high seniority to hold. You have to wait until someone dies or retires before you can even think of placing on a job. The trick is to let your seniority work for you and bid on jobs as they come up and work your way up that way. Bid every job you see an opening for, they are always posted when open. Every railroader will tell you they have seen good jobs go to a junior employee because a senior employee didn't bid on them when they were open. Then you have to be "bumped" in order to be able to displace a junior employee. Hang in there! CT
Always appreciate the quick responses, Charlie! But by prior experience, I was thinking more along the lines of what I can do as a minor before I get hired. My actual career plans are pretty simple; get hired at the earliest age that I possibly can, bid on every single job I see posted (since, being young, I really don't care what I'm doing... as long as I'm working), and stay inside the PNW Division of BNSF, working my butt off at what I do best until I wither away. That is unless something unexpectedly changes as I go along, which I'm not necessarily opposed to. Another plus of being young is the fact that I'm totally unopposed and would actually look forward to being transferred all the time... I just don't wanna end up living permanently in a town I really don't enjoy. I guess what I'm asking is, what previous experience (doesn't have to be RR related) did you notify the interviewer about that helped you get the job? I ask this mainly because, if I apply at 18 or 19, I'll have no previous full time jobs to serve as proof that I can hold a job with no set schedule. Any thoughts?
Well... When I was in high school I had a job selling newspapers on the main intersection near my home. That was a couple of hours after school most days. Then... 1. I got a job with United Airlines after high school 2. I enlisted in the Army and served 3yrs active duty. Separated and discharged Honorably. 3. Went back to the airline 4. Went to college at night 5. Had various positions with the airline both management and non-managment. 6. Got married 7. Left the airline after 25yrs of service. 8. Was a travel agent for 10 years. 9. Was hired by the BNSF after trying to get a railroad job for 10-15 yrs. Got a stack of "dont call us,we'll call you" letters from a number of carriers. I even interviewed with AMTRAK for a part-time reservation agent's job(don't call us- we'll call you"). Dunno what convinced BNSF to hire me,other than the fact that I had beaucoup public contact experience, am a Vietnam Era Veteran,had good recommendation from my travel agent employer(railroad is only interested in what you've done the last 10 years). I dont drink or smoke, I passed a physical exam and a drug/alcohol screening,plus a couple of aptitude tests. On the other hand, my young friend that I mentioned earlier(he was 19y/o when hired)had been a Mickey D's kid and was a stock boy in a local supermarket and had attended a local JuCo for about 6mos. His dad is a hogger on the ATSF side of the RR. You have to show the RR that you are a stable,steady,dependable,reasonbly intelligent individual. IF you are called or invited to an interview or indoctrination session. BE ON TIME,dont come running in at the last minute. I got to my "invitational" about 5 mins ahead of time. At 8AM, the door was locked. Several people were turned away. Be truthful and candid with your answers. Be clean(bathed and drug/booze free),shaven,shorn,dress neatly in clean clothing and undergarments. Leave your chewing gum in the wrapper. Brush your teeth,comb your hair,shine your shoes. Be courteous and responsive. If you have a question,ask it. If you dont understand something, ask for an explanation. speak clearly,dont use profanity,try not to use jargon or vernacular.The official language of this country is still English. Use it properly. From your postings I can see that you speak,read and write English. It's not that the railroad discourages diversity of race or religion, but the language of radio communication is English, you need to know it! Do not hesitate to accentuate your positives, ie are you an Eagle Scout,are/were you National Honor Society,you won a first prize in an invitational piano virtuoso competition. You get my drift! What is going to get you the job is your ability to impress the human resources wonk who reads your C.V. and/or does your interview. I would be less than honest and also naive if I didn't mention that race and gender also have a bearing. If you are of a "minority" ethnicity, that adds points. If you are female,that adds points. If you are a minority female, that adds lots of points. Dunno what else to tell you Paul! (BTW some of my favorite people are named Paul-just a thought!) Charlie
Nars I wouldn't do nars. Cause the railroad makes you go through conductor class again. Just get hired as a conductor go through training once and save yourself the trouble of going through it twice. Plus only going through once your senority would build faster then going through it twice.
BNFan, I completely agree with you that the NARS training isn't really completely necessary for working the job I'm hoping to get. My whole reasoning for wanting to take it and spend $10K is so that I can have something experience related to give the interviewer. Right now, the only thing I have going for me that I can put down in the experience category is volunteer work at a railroad museum. It's taught me just about everything I need to know and more to be able to function in a RR environment, but I doubt experience at a museum is nearly enough to land a job. My plan is to get the job ASAP after graduating high school in 2 years. No matter how old or mature I may appear, what are the chances of a railroad like BNSF hiring a Florida boy fresh out of high school with no real career experience and having volunteering as the only plus on my resume? All I'm saying is, I'll be 18 when I hope to get hired. I won't need alot of money right off the bat. NARS is only 6 weeks. It's one of the only tools I'll be able to utilize to get ahead. What have I got to lose other than a few weeks' lower seniority? (I mean, I'm starting out at the youngest possible age. I'll have plenty seniority when I'm older). But if you still don't think it's worth it, let me know. I don't wanna spend $10K if I don't absolutely have to.
one more thing Pablo, this is an absolutely terrible time to look for a railroad job. All the carriers are furloughing employees, but not necessarily in all locations. AMTRAK is still hiring but for mostly clerical/office jobs and exempt positions. The Operating Dep't jobs that are open(Asst.Passenger Conductor,LSA,Train attendant,Locomotive engineer trainee etc)will all be filled by people with prior RR experience,save for possibly the LSA and Attendant jobs. Those require certain skills(bartending/food handling/hospitality industry)and will go to persons who already have experience in those fields. Over on MySpace, there are a number of railroad oriented message boards and a lot of railroaders are out of work right now. The layoffs are going as much as 5yrs deep in seniority,so it's a big problem to hold a job right now. It's anyone's guess as to how many of those furloughed will return if they are recalled. Previous experience tells me that 70-80% will come back. The economy will have to take a quantum leap before rail business picks up to the point of requiring new hires again, but take heart, increase in rail traffic is usually one of the first signs that the economy is improving. Railroads haul the basic materials for industry and homebuilding. Hang in there buddy! CT
Yeah, it's pretty easy to see what you're talking about. Down here in Florida, FEC has cut their operations nearly in half (largely thanks to RailAmerica). Not a clue as to how CSX is doing. I wouldn't even bother applying to Amtrak with my experience (or lack of). But I've still got 2 1/2 years until I even graduate! Something's got to change by then. BNSF reported a few months back that it's expecting to take on 45K new hires over the next decade or so (dont remember the exact # of years). Again, another reason why I'm willing to pay for NARS to up my chances, and another reason why I'm trying to get in as young as I possibly can (more seniority sooner and money isn't as much of a necessity). The fact is that there is no other career field that comes close to captivating my interests as much as railroading. I much prefer to work my ass off in the brutal cold amongst spurting oil and an overheated engine than play videogames in a clean, quiet suburb. One way or another, I'll find a way... I just need continuous tips from you guys :- D
Pablito, I wish I could give you an answer on that N.A.R.S. thing. I went there myself, for conductor and then again for engineer, but I believe I mentioned that the BNSF paid for it both times. Nowadays the BNSF trains people in the terminal they hire out for(or at least try to)excepting engineers,dispatchers and Yardmasters and certain mechanical trades. You already know N.A.R.S. will cost you beaucoup $$$ to attend there. I dont believe that tuition includes room and board so you have to figure in the cost of lodging and meals. Also, Overland Park KS is a rather upscale suburb of Kansas City so it's not cheap and you will need a set of wheels to get there and get around. N.A.R.S. is on the campus of Johnson County Community College so there are no dorms there, everyone is a commuter student. Dunno if you have or will have a car by then, and at age 18 you will probably still be carried on your parents auto insurance policy. If not, your insurance will cost you almost as much as the tuition! So you gotta figure in the cost of transportation in the mix. When you add it all up, you're looking at a lot of money. You cant say,"well I'll wont eat much,and I can wear my clothes several days in a row." Nope! It wont work, you cant skip mealtime, you need the energy to be alert and aware and maintain your strength. You sure dont want to wear dirty clothes to school or to the training yard. You have to impress the teachers so that they will give you a good recommendation. As I say, it's up to you to determine what you should do. Unless you have a LOT of money saved, you will have to get a loan to pay for your training. You have to pay that money back. You will NEED a job to pay back the loan plus when you are working you will still need money to live on, unless you plan on being like Tommy and sponge off your parents. Its not an easy decision you have to make, I know! When I was a student conductor at N.A.R.S. I got a student stipend of $50 p/day and an expense allowance of $25 p/day. That is not a lot of money. Fortunately my wife was working and we still had money coming in so there was really no problem. You wont have that sort of cushion! Hope I gave you some further insight into what you may expect! Stay in touch! Charlie
Hmm... does anybody have any ideas about what kind of part time work the railroad may be interested in seeing on a resume? I'm really trying to tailor the next couple of years to appeal to a BNSF interviewer. I would guess anything having to do w/ manual labor? And again, I really want to thank you all for the help/advice you've given me so far. In the past two months, I've gone from being not even sure what railroad I might want to work for, to having a pretty clear picture of exactly how I plan on getting to where I know I want to go. Charlie, thank you especially!
You're welcome Pablito! IMO it's not so much what KIND of work you do, it's more like how well you did it. Are you habitually tardy, did you take a lot of sick time, do you move from job to job like you are playing checkers? All of that will be considered. What they are looking for from your references are comments like "always on time, keeps profitably busy,never takes sick time, accepts assignments willingly, completes tasks promptly, works carefully and safely, is courteous,friendly and helpful to customers" ... you get the drift! They want to know that you'll be a team player(sorry for the cliche!) and that you recognize and accept authority. During the brief time that we have corresponded, I have gathered that you are rather intelligent and you appear to be a quick learner. Those are criteria that HR wonks look for. As I mentioned, dont be afraid to "blow your own horn"(there's the cliche again) but dont be the braggart! One can admit to their accomplishments and be humble! Just dont stick it in their face! (Oy!) Hang in there Tiger! Charlie
Books Hi Pablo! I'm from Italy and I have a relative who used to work for our railroads. I also have a friend who works for MRL in these days: I met him while he was in the Middle East with the National Guard... I've always been interested in railroads and railroading so I asked him lot fo questions. After seeing your posts here I wrote to him and he told me that MRL usually hires locals and, above all, those locals which already have relatives working for the company. I suppose it's a way for the company to ensure a clean family background, meet people which won't require any relocation/housing cost and knows (at least by word of mouth) about the life for the company (in this case MRL). Moreover, this company in particular is hiring people previousl furloughed this summer after MRL experienced a shut down of its mainline due to a tunnel ceiling collapsing during maintenance works. Anyway, if you want to have a look of what the life of a newly hired line worker is, read the book "Burlington Northern Adventures", by William J. Brotherton. According to what all the other members here told you, it's quite a realistic picture of the railroad life at the beginning of the '80s, showing in particular the transition from the days of cabooses to the two man train crew. Hope it will help! Edoardo
To help Charlie out, NARS does have a room package deal with an extended stay hotel.I think they even run a shuttle bus now. I hired out with only one NARS guy in my class of 15.The only reason he had gone to NARS was he moved to Galesburg from Ohio and they wanted him to prove he wanted it.Other than that most of the guys after about may 05 were all off the streets with no NARS training. If you want to go to Choo Coo U its up to you. Some cases it will help others it may not. Dont give up!
