I'm sure this has been asked before, but has anyone come u with a formula for matching the weird Atlas "Rock Island Blue"???? Thanks, I've tried numerous times....
I've recently discovered that blue paint can be really tricky while trying to find a close match to Amtrak Surfliner blue. At least with the model acrylic paints I've tried via airbrush so far. It can seem way too light as you look at it in the bottle and even with the first couple of coats, then it keeps getting darker and darker with additional coats. Then, after it continues to dry, it gets even darker! I think a lot has to do with the color and brightness of the primer or base coat with regards to the first coats especially, but it really seems like it's a completely different blue color at the beginning. It even seems to darken down in the bottle when it hasn't been mixed in several minutes. Tricky color! You may need to do a lot of experimentation.
Well for sure the bottle ready versions of this paint don't come close to the Atlas mix...I just wanna add some Rock specific details. I've fooled with the primer issue....Thanks for the heads up....I'll keep experimenting.
I've purchased the Badger and tru-color Rock blue......They don't come close to what Atlas painted their GP38-2's
Years ago there were a few forums on the old Yahoo site for Rock Island info. I remember asking this very question about 10 or so years ago and the consensus then was GN Big Sky Blue with a drop or two of green, black, and white, of all things! One of the members on that group had found an actual paint chip, IIRC, and posted it. He was right: depending on sun angle. sun "power"--i.e. what time of the day and how clear or cloudy the sky--one could find several different shades, tints, or what have you! Something else that might help is starting with EMDX's "Oakway" blue and reworking the combinations till you get an acceptable shade of blue. And before I forget, there's another railroad (short line?) on ex-Rock trackage, maybe around McAlester, OK?--and they have their engines painted in various Rock colors, both blue and maroonish. I don't remember the name but check some of the other photo sites for clues. Best of success to you and I hope you can post some photos for us!
This thread got me curious and I decided to go down and pull out some of my Rock locos. I knew when they released the GP7's they were way off in color, almost a teal. I know that the GP38-2's that LifeLike produced were even further off, they are really Teal in color. To my eyes, the Atlas GP38-2 comes the closest, though it may still be a bit too dark? Their more recent runs of their GP40's and GP40r's are a tad bit greener but not as bad as the GP7. The SD40-2 I painted with Tru-Color TCP-166 Rock Island Blue and I thought it looked better, but in this photo it's the lightest of them all, lol. More recently I painted the Atlas/BLMA Airslide hopper using the same TCP-166 (probably the same bottle) and yet it's a bit darker than the SD40-2? Both the SD40-2 and the airslide was primed with TCP-256 Light Primer before I applied the paint, even still the airslide is a smidge darker. I know years ago when I was painting with Floquil, the common formula was two parts GN Blue with one part Reefer White, which I always thought was pretty dang close, but I don't have of those models or bottles of Floquil in hand for comparison. Of all the images I have, I feel that these show the truest color, at least to me and is closest to the hopper? Seeing these all together, I can see where if you use the Tru-Color paint and try adding a some black to darker it and some green to get away from the Baby Blue look of the hopper, you could get pretty close depending on what details you add. I have more than enough undec locos and I might just paint them myself and sell off the stock blue locos. At least that way they'll all match better, that is until I weather them of course. Again, none of these photos are mine. If needed, I'll happily remove the photos.
As a last resort you could take your shell to Home Depot and find a color chip that matches it then have them whip you up a five dollar color-matched sample jar. Thin it down for the airbrush in a separate jar. It would last forever and you'd only be out five bucks if it doesn't work out. I did this years ago to match the Frisco color on the Atlas GP38s, and then again a few months ago to match the color of a house I was making an n-scale version of. Cheers -Mike
Another factor that I found with finding the right Surfliner blue (among a few other colors) is adjusting for your layout lighting. Right now I have my first Surfliner car painted up and, while it looks pretty close to spot-on outside in the sun, the blue is way too dark in the (very well lit) layout room. It really seems like it can't possibly be the same paint job! Outside it has a hint of baby blue (like the prototype) but in the layout room it is a very dark navy blue. So, if your layout lighting is supposed to represent a certain kind of sunlight, try to find a match based on a unit sitting in that outdoor lighting.
I used the Reaper pallette mentioned above on the 4302 unit. It says that Reaper 9018 Sky Blue is one to try. Their paint is superb and airbrushes and hand brushes beautifully.
Just a thought, since the Rock Island operated in various terrains, the same paint job would likely look different in, say, Amarillo, TX or Dalhart as compared to the greener, more level terrain around Illinois and Iowa. Maybe the Rock's budget only allowed them to get the lowest price light blue they could find and hope for the best--I've heard or read somewhere it takes between 20 to 40 gallons of paint to cover a locomotive. Thoughts?
I would agree that different terrain and surrounding vegetation could create a different look, but there are so many things that add to the coloration differences: Lighting, dirt and grime, different jobs that the locos served on, different films, different exposures by different photographers, different lens, different times of day. Then you get into scans and different monitor settings as well. As for the color of paint they used. I suppose that can be an attribute as well. They were strapped for cash around 74 after a long strike in 72. I know there were different companies who rebuilt the GP7's, 9's and 18's, the main one being Morrison-Knudsen. Then after the CRP (Capitol Rebuilding Program) got into swing, M-K sub let out some of the rebuilding which some went to Paducah shops on the IC. Originally M-K got the contract and the contract included painting them into the Red and Yellow scheme, but shortly afterwards, The Rock decided to go with the Blue and white at which some point, some of the freshly painted Red and Yellow units were promptly repainted to Blue and White as soon as they hit Silvis. I've never read if they stripped them down and reprimed them, one would think they would, but being short of cash, maybe they just painted over the fresh paint? That could cause some modulation in the colors as well. I'm pretty sure some of the units got painted elsewhere other than at Silvis, and that could explain a difference in color? Did all the paint come from the same supplier and color batch? Now that was the GP7's, 9's and 18's. The GP38-2's I think were all delivered in the Blue and White, while the GP40r's (the 3000 series rebuilt GP40's, and there were only 6) were done at Silvis, and the 3005 which got stuck in the shops on the day of shutdown. All this could contribute to different shades of blue. Like I said before, depending and what and how big the details are that you want to apply, I don't think it'll be a huge deal if they are somewhat off unlike it would be if your painting the whole shell? Maybe, maybe not.
I was just wondering how does the Micro Trains Rock Island blue boxcars go for correct colours ? One of the colour matching problems I sometimes forget is the use of film. Some brands of film used to give results leaning towards a particular shade. Even name brand lenses could induce a slight colour. I once did an experiment with a Canon A1 and 50mm 1.4 lens. I set it on a tripod and took a photo. I quickly swapped the lens for a Canon 50mm Tilt / Shift lens and took another photo. Both in diffused light and the same roll of film. The regular 50mm 1.4 lens photo had a distinct purple shade to the left and right side of the photos that I never noticed previously. I had (and still am) always been very happy with the 50mm 1.4 lens. Nobody could explain what caused the slight colour distortion until I met a Royal Australian Air Force surveillance specialist whose job was to process images taken from F1-11's. He advised the edges of the 50mm 1.4 lens were closer to the edge of the negative. I can't recall exactly how he explained it but the light around of the edge of the lens is supposedly being split a little making a bit of blue / purple. ............
From a person with low vison let me add: * Cell phone cameras adjust colors * Type of light adjust colors * Fading adjust colors Blue being one of the 3 primary colors can have: * Yellow added to make it 'greener' * Red added to make it 'purpuler' * Wite or balck to adjust intensity Decadeds ago, (when my vision was a lot better) I painted lead miniatures using, red, yellow, blue, 'gold', 'silver' black and white paints. I had a pallet system for experimenting with color mixes. Today knowing what I do I still mix my own colors but I have to ask my wife for feedback. ☻
We may be going way off track here but I was wondering about comparing automobile body paint to railroad colors? Example: Dad used to have a 1968 or so Ford Fairlane or maybe Galaxie 500. That car was a very light shade of blue but seemed kinda-sorta close to Rock's blue comparing what I remembered to what I saw in RI pictures. After all, as the writer of a Model Railroader article back in the early 80's observed, every color in the world comes from blue, red, yellow, black and white (Carl Haeberle).
Last night, I watched an Atlas live stream with Matt Moceikis from Atlas and Tony Cook from White River Publications. Its posted on YouTube if anyone wants to watch. So, what does that have to do with this thread you ask? Well, one of the things Matt really tried to make a point on is the lengths Atlas goes to for accurate colors. Maybe it might be worth trying to reach straight out to Matt about the color and how to match it. Just a thought.
