Hello All: I have been curious about the "new" series of MRC N scale sound DCC decoders, since they are supposed to be upgraded from the former series, like 1645, 1644 etc. Reviews have been mixed at best, but some people seem to be happy with their 1806 mounted in the Kato SD40-2 mid prod. uniits, which made me take the plunge when an equipped engine became available at a low price (possible warning right there). The main reason I bring it up is to show this photo I took with the MRC loco on the left and the same loco with a Digitrax DN163K1C on the right. The photo has been tweaked because of backlighting so the actual brightness of the lights is somewhat accentuated. Notice that the MRC engine does not light the ditchlights at all. Why? The incredibly tiny SM LED, about half the size of the already small Digitrax one, which in turn is smaller than the Kato factory light board one. It is also amber like the old pre-DCC days LEDs, and very dim. It is set back on the PC board so far that no light can reach the ditch light tube, which is at a lower level than the headlight lens, a rather poor design I think which makes it hard to get decent lighting from this particular engine, but the MRC takes the cake. The excessive brightness of the Digitrax numberboard can be remedied, but the MRC overall dimmness cannot. Sound-wise, I don't notice that much difference from the older decoders, and the 1806 has no extra function pads for added lighting. The sound is adequate, but after a while it starts to get annoying, and I have to turn it off. It is fun when starting up, or idling, but when running, is not convincing and quickly becomes tiresome. It does seen to be a smooth running decoder, but you are starting with a very smooth running engine. There is no BEMF. My main reason for posting is that if you have read posts on other forums that these are great decoders, be warned. You will have a barely visible headlight, no ditch lights, no extra functions and sound that isn't fundamentally better than the older decoders. I was expecting more, and if the lights were OK, I guess I would be satisfied overall. It would have taken minimal effort to make the lighting adequate and they really struck out on that. I just happen to like bright lights, because that's prototypical in modern engines.
U23B Seems like MRC can't do a sound decoder without getting at least one thing wrong. I got a couple of 1811 drop in sound decoders for the Atlas U23B today and just finished installing one. The instruction sheet says, "This new decoder has the speaker mounted on the underside of the circuit board. This makes installation easier with no frame milling required". I should have taken more notice of the first sentence which reads, "It is quite a challenge to install this decoder into an N scale diesel locomotive". Honest, that's really what it says! I ended up having to take 1/16" from the frame under the speaker and a bit from the front under a couple of large components, an easy enough job but not exactly as advertised. Once installed though the sounds are reasonable considering the small speaker. There are two engine sounds and I was hoping the second would be an EMD so I could use the decoders in my GP35's, the manual just says, "There is a second diesel prime mover sound you may enjoy also". I haven't identified it yet, at first I thought Alco of some sort but the more I listen it sounds more like a Baldwin switcher I heard running at Sacramento Railfair. The lights are ok, and can be set to normal on/off, an off/dim/bright cycle or rule 17. Unlike previous MRC sound decoders this one can use a speed table. I think MRC are improving with their sound decoders but seem to take two steps forward and one step backwards.
Really small LED? I looked it up and it shows a normal 3mm led on that unit. does the decoder look modified? Edit: oops it was a different one I was looking at. yeah that LED looks a bit small
No...the solution is called "feeder tubes". Very few things in our N-scale hobby are 100% "drop in" perfect functionality. This is an example of a situation where some fitting is necessary. MRC boards aren't perfect. The good thing about them is that the design is engineered to fit as many different engine types across as many releases as possible. Digitrax (actually my favorite DCC manufacturer) makes their tolerances a little tight. You will find many examples where their boards must be modified to function correctly. 6 of one, 1/2 dozen of another. Bottom line? Don't expect everything to be a perfect drop-in. I'm not trying to be snide, it's just that I think that you are expecting too much from a type of product that is specifically designed to be as inclusive as possible.
delljohnb I have to disagree with your statement. This decoder was designed for one loco type and that's the Kato SD40-2 mid production since there isn't any other engines out right now that require this one. So with it being a drop in it should be a perfect fit without any issue or having to change or modify things. If ram53 had put it into anything else that uses the DN163K1B decoder and complained about the lights not being very bright then I'd agree with you, but this is one reason why I took out the K1C's I had to use in a couple of my engines for a show until I could get some K1B's due to the exact same thing that ram53 experienced. But I knew I was using the wrong decoder and it wouldn't be perfect.
Well, I'm swimming in my half full glass, amazed that we've gone from "N Scale is impracticable for sound" to "Gee, those N Scale sound boards are great, but the lights are too dim". :tb-biggrin::tb-biggrin::tb-biggrin:
As you noted, cross switching decoder types does occur. The K1C is a good example of inclusion of what engineers call failure expectation. This means that one intentionally adds "flexibility" into the design to increase the scope of the product's usage. I'm sure that's what happened here. Perhaps they set their parameters too large. I guess that is what we are discussing here. These boards (MRC or digitrax) can be used in other engines...not just the SD45...however it is not a perfect solution. I understand your disagreement with my earlier statement. This is a perfectly legitimate stance on this issue. I would boil it down to a disagreement over the amount of design flexibility engineered into this board.
Yes but these weren't designed to be for other engines, they were designed for one specific engine that Kato threw everybody a curve ball with going to the surface mount LED's which Digitrax turned around and modified their K1B's for the engines creating the K1C's. So when MRC decided to make a sound decoder for this unique engine then there should be no if's, and's, or but's about it fitting and working perfectly. MRC has dropped the ball on all their sound decoders in my opinion. I do have a few and aren't too bad but with some of the lack of programming, sounds, BEMF, CV readback they still have a long way to come to bring them up to the levels of Digitrax, Lenz, NCE, etc. and with little things like the LED's in this case it just makes more people reconsider them and in probably a lot of cases not buy their products.
I had a break and came back and ran it for a while and the second engine sound is now starting to sound a bit like an EMD to me, it's a pity MRC can't document what the sounds are instead of just saying "2 engine sounds, 34 horns....". I have to admit I've had to do a bit of surgery to get drop in decoders to fit where they weren't designed to, and can't comment on the SD40-2 but the 1811's package specifically says, "N gauge drop-in; Atlas GE U23" and inside it says, "no milling of frame required", but like I said it doesn't drop in until you remove 1/16" of the frame. If a decoder is advertised as fitting a certain engine it may well be able to fit other similar locos with a bit of effort but I expect it to work in the one its advertised as fitting. I'm happy overall with my MRC sound decoders and they're beating everyone else to the N scale drop in diesel sound market, but they've got to keep working on polishing up their act a bit.
IIRC the two sounds MRC uses are an SD45 and MP15 for the engine type. As for the horns I agree it would be nice to know what each other was so you could try to match the engine you are using them in. MRC even got it wrong with the 1645 which again was suppose to be PNP but required you to cut something like 14 places on the plastic housing for it to fit.
the amount of trimming is negligable. If this minor amount of fitting is "excessive" then one would do better staying away from utilizing sound in N scale engines. MRC has done a tremendous job bringing this techology to the N-Scale community. It is NOT marketed as plug-and-play. "A miracle of N-Scale decoder engineering, there’s no connectors, no wiring, no machining, no “dremeling”; the easiest decoder installation possible. Imagine… MRC’s “Brilliance™” sound that’s virtually “plug ‘n play” in one of N-scale's smoothest running and most popular locomotives. All 28 NMRA available functions, and your choices of 8 bells & 16 horns will make the P-42 come alive like never before."
To Ram53, if you are good at soldering, you can take the stock light out of the Kato light board and solder it on the MRC board. It is a bit wider, and you'll have to use some kapton tape on each edge of the frame, but it will fix your light issue. I did this on the one I have. As to everyone else, I'm super happy with mine, it works great, reads back CV's, doesn't cut out even running at slow speeds, runs great with my other decoder'd locos, and it's SOUND! Alot better than running "quite".:thumbs_up: Maybe I'm easy to please, I don't know. -Mike
They shouldn't even use the words plug 'n play in the marketing of this item. The amount of trimming that needs to be done is so much that the factory light board will never securely fit back into the plastic housing and will require its replacement if the person wishes to either change it back to the factory light board or replace the MRC decoder with another kind of decoder. I wouldn't say they've brought a tremendous technology but an ok product. But the one thing with MRC doing this should get the better DCC companies fired up and into the game and then we will see a tremendous technology introduced that will far surpass MRC and leave them in the dust. MRC has to do a bit of work to still even be considered on par with any of the big DCC companies and for me and probably many other people who have tried their decoders would rather stick with standard decoders that out perform and gives us everything we need minus the sound.
delljohnb....unless I'm wrong about who you were replying to... 1/16" is NOT "neglible"! There is no way I would subject myself to removing that much material off a frame without my Dremel. EDIT: Misunderstood, see below.
Mavrick, I suggest that you stay out of using sound in N scale. The sound quality and capabilities are not anywhere near what one can expect in HO. You will probably be underwhelmed by the capability of any of the N scale sound capable systems. This is cutting edge for this scale. If you expect things to be 100% compatable and a "snap" to install then you will be disappointed. As far as the discription of "plug-an-play", "drop-in", "DCC Compatable", "DCC Friendly", search the boards here and on Altas. These issues have been covered adnauseum and detract from the issue of this thread....unless of course this thread is merely a fishing expedition. I prefer to believe that it isn't.
I was talking to another poster. And the material isn't removed from the frame. It is cut using an X-acto from the rather soft plastic mounting guide that snaps into the frame. It's not necessary for th proper functioning of the engine or the proper functioning of the DCC board. The guide removal is trivial at worst. A Dremel would be over-kill and you would do more harm than good....really....this component of the install is minimal. I say that from personal experience.
Well obviously your opinion vs. mine in what is cutting edge is apples and oranges which really shouldn't be when you look at sound companies that are out there that let you download and install sound files to fit the specific engine, road, model, etc. I don't expect miracles with a speaker that is no bigger then a dime but then again if you have actually understood what I've been saying I haven't been talking about the sound I've been talking about the other functions that are rather basic that MRC is missing with their decoders, not to mention they can't get a simple LED right which is what started this whole thread. I've been in the hobby long enough, and done enough installations in N for myself, friends and local shops to know what is cutting edge and what isn't and MRC is the latter. As for the whole PNP, compatible, friendly, etc. I will just leave that can of worms alone but I do know the differences very well.
Well, if the MRC sound board isn't acceptable for the Kato SD40-2, perhaps you can suggest different drop-in sound board.
(Which one?) I thought you were talking about Westfalen's comments about the U25B. Since you didn't quote or otherwise reference the post you were replying to, maybe you can understand my confusion.
