1. HoboTim

    HoboTim TrainBoard Supporter

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    NP GP9

    Wow!!! Went by my LHS,

    Rio Grande Hobbies
    http://www.4nscale.com

    While there I was amazed at how that store is growing in size since they moved here about a year ago. They might have to start another shelf near the ceiling to hold all of their merchandise. 100+ packages went out USPS and about that many were destined for UPS today too. Model Railroading is Great!!!

    Anyways, while there I got to see the new NP GP9. Very nice paint job. Wish I had the Dough to get one. If I did, it would be sitting in some stripper right now!!!! Woo Hoo Coast Guard coming right up!!!

    Sorry, getting carried away with myself!!!

    I did look at what seems to be the concern, the width of the GP9. I am not a rivot counter either, but if you guyZ say it is alot wider than Proto, then who am I to dis-agree. I have not seen an AZL GP7 so I have no clue what the width is suppose to look like. I just know that sometime in the future I will get one of these to play with.

    Oh, my main reason for going to Rio Grande Hobbies was to pick up a set of the new 220mm curve track sections. Unfortunately they will not be shipped from MTL till end of month is what I was told!!! Ugh!!!!!! I can wait!!!!

    Hobo Tim
     
  2. David K. Smith

    David K. Smith TrainBoard Supporter

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    According to the review of the AZL GP7 by Jeffrey MacHan in the latest issue of Ztrack, the proto hood width is 10 feet; the AZL measures 10 feet 1.6 inches. In Z scale, that's not even worth mentioning!

    Other impressive stats: The overall loco length is 4 inches longer than proto; overall height is 1 inch shorter; cab width is 1/2 inch narrower; wheelbase is 1 inch shorter; wheel diameter is 1.5 inches larger. Overall, this looks to be one of the most accurate mass-produced models made... in almost any scale.
     
  3. RSmidt

    RSmidt TrainBoard Member

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    I think 10' would be over the sides of the walkways/chassis rather than the hood itself.

    From what I understand, the MTL model is a little wider to accomodate the motor. I'm curious if it is just wide across the hood or if the whole chassis and the cab are wide as well. Has anyone measured the MTL yet? I'm curious if by wide, it is 6 scale inches wide, 1 scale foot wide or more or less than that?

    I'm also curious to see who the first one to try to section and narrow one of these will be? ;-)
    I thought someone might have already tried it by now with the GP35, but I guess no one is really upset enough to actually do it.

    Randy
     
  4. shamoo737

    shamoo737 Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    Randy, for some reason, the GP9 looks chubbier then the GP35. At first look, I thought it was because it was a shorter, but to my surprice, its actually has a longer shell. It still has the same truck spacing. I do think the SD40 will lose its chubby look because of the extra lenght. On my GP 40, it doesnt look fat at all, and its only three feet longer. Is funny how taller people always look slimmer. I guess is the same with trains.
     
  5. ddechamp71

    ddechamp71 TrainBoard Member

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    As far as I know, and according to my own experience, there are a few design differences about existing Z scale roadswitchers. I should put them into any of these 3 categories:

    -accurate chassis, "broad" hood: AZL's brass models (C44-9, SD40-2, SD40T2, SD45) and Rogue/AZL GP38-2

    -"broad" chassis, "broad" hood: MTL Geeps (I don't own any GP9 yet, but I believe the same design goals drove to the same solution).

    -accurate chassis, close to accurate hood (cf Jeff Mc Han): AZL SD70, AZL GP7.

    Why all this? Because there are a few slight design differences between them.

    -First, all the AZL brass, Rogue GP38 and MTLs use a 8mm wide can motor (Faulhaber or Maxon) that is completely covered with the hood, thus leading to an hood that is slightly too broad (~ 1 scale foot). This is less accurate, but this one of the features that allow MTL to release low priced units.

    -Then the plastic AZLs: as far as I understood, there is an "hole" cut each side into the hood at the location of the motor: this allows to have an hood that is mostly the same width than the 8mm can motor (there is a plastic cover that fills the space around the motor's curvature inside the "hole").

    Now, about the "broad" hooded units:

    -AZL chose to have an accurate chassis, thus leading to an unfair chassis width / hood width ratio (this appears when looking at the cabin's rear windows - those which look at the long hood - which are too narrow).

    -MTL chose an accurate chassis width / hood width ratio, leading to a slightly too wide chassis and cabin.

    If this can help.....

    Dominique
     
  6. Chris333

    Chris333 TrainBoard Supporter

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    The MT GP35 and GP9 have the exact same sized motor as the AZL GP7... I'll be nice and just say that much.

    My guess is the GP9 is the same width as the GP35, but to me from the release photos only the GP9 looks better. Possibly just the effect of a high short hood.

    Helping me make my choice. Erie had around 52 GP7's and only 6 GP9's :p

    I think I have the decals figured out:
    http://picasaweb.google.com/ErieChris333/Models/photo#5086106100042860418
    Black printed on clear decal with the yellow painted underneath.
     
  7. Loren

    Loren TrainBoard Supporter

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    Dominique, It boils down to the fact that since Z scale is limiting by nature of size restrictions, all of us are going to have to accept some compromise.

    Guess it is a case of learning to live with it unless someone is rich enough to start from ground zero and design the perfect solution at the expense of many many dollars.
    Loren
     
  8. Joe D'Amato

    Joe D'Amato TrainBoard Member

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    Amazing what gets us worked up...I can't remember all the particulars at this moment, but overall width and length of the GP 9/35 is accurate unless you worry in inches in 1/220 scale! Yes the hood is wider and in the begining we thought about adding an insert to narrow the whole affair but were concerned about mixing metal and plastics, both having different expansion and reduction rates with temperature changes. In the end it might not be a problem, but I was unwilling to gamble with a $200 locomotive. It also presented some decorating issues I was not excited to deal with, so we went with a design that would work for our process and keep the cost competitive. So goes the life of a manufacturer...

    Joe
     
  9. David K. Smith

    David K. Smith TrainBoard Supporter

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    Quite true; I was simply regurgitating the article specs, and wasn't paying as much attention to the numbers as their differences. It would seem the article's author referenced the following web page for the data:

    http://www.thedieselshop.us/Data EMD GP7.HTML

    Finding the actual width of a GP7 hood (and not having any technical books on hand) has been a challenge, surprisingly. So far, I have not found any technical drawings or other data sheets online that provide this dimension. I did come across a discussion about the same problem with older HO locos, and there was a reference to the hood being 6 feet wide.

    Using this as the starting point (and until anyone can provide something better), I measured the AZL hood to be nominally 0.345 inches, or 6.325 feet, or approximately 4 inches too wide. Still pretty darn good, IMHO.

    As for what people get worked up over, I wouldn't say that I am especially worked up over this issue (I am not a rivet-counter, and ordinarily I don't go around measuring models for accuracy); however, the price difference between the AZL and the M-T models is so minimal that I'm inclined to spend a little extra for a unit that, to my eye, simply looks better. The M-T unit does look just a bit "chunky" especially when seen side-by-side with a more accurate representation, as illustrated in this thread:

    http://www.trainboard.com/grapevine/showthread.php?t=90167

    I'm not M-T bashing, here, but there's more than just the hood width difference; look at the detailing. The pilots alone are night and day.
     
  10. solo_clipper

    solo_clipper TrainBoard Member

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    They both look good to me, the first one that comes out in CP I will get.:angel:
     
  11. Kurt Moose

    Kurt Moose TrainBoard Member

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    Whoever comes out in GN colors get's my money!:rolleyes:
     
  12. ddechamp71

    ddechamp71 TrainBoard Member

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    Loren, you're absolutely right, but my previous post wasn't a complaint! Sorry for haven't been clear enough!:teeth:

    Dom
     
  13. wunlwunt 220

    wunlwunt 220 TrainBoard Member

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    To me the "nege" (near enough is good enough ) principle applies, i am looking to buy 6 or so GP9's to head my consists and if they are 1 inch or even 6 out of scale i dont care so long as they haul my consists and look good. Come on down the PRR GP9's, and thanks JOE for bringing out more locos in Z.
    Eliot
     
  14. rray

    rray Staff Member

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    These loco LOOK GOOD! Just because there is comparison between AZL and MTL does not mean one is good and the other is not, they are both good!

    What the bottom line is, is we now have both a great GP7 and a great GP9 in Z Scale!:shade:
     
  15. russmeier

    russmeier TrainBoard Member

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    Future roads: October, November, December?

    Hi Joe,

    Now that you've sold out the NP GP9, have the CN GP9 on the fast track to selling out, and are ready-ing the New Haven and MILWAUKEE ROAD -- Go Road! --, I was wondering if you might have permission yet to tellus the October, November, and December releases. Christmas is coming the goose is getting fat... gotta get those gift lists solidified! ;)

    Seriously, though, my real question is if the MILW is the "heritage" unit for us CP fans, or do you see SOO and CP in the future????

    Russ Meier
    Milwaukee, WI
    MILW, UP, and CP in Z

    Currently running locomotive: CP GP-35 pulling 25 tank cars -- love them tanks!
     
  16. Joe D'Amato

    Joe D'Amato TrainBoard Member

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    GP Release

    To be honest, I don't know what's up next. I have a list submitted, but with all the traveling we've done, we haven't had time to firm anything up. I'm trying to alternate between East and West of the Mississippi here on out. We have developed the Loco Schedule for next year and it's going to be an expensive and crowded 12 months!! :eek:) We hope to have more F7's along with the SD40-2 and the E8A-B's...Road names to follow.

    Cheers

    Joe
    MTL

     
  17. solo_clipper

    solo_clipper TrainBoard Member

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    SOO and CP! Russmeier I thought I was the only one dreaming about these roads. I e-mailed MTL quite a while ago about them and they said no, not in the plans :cry:. We can keep dreaming though, those two GP 35's are getting lonely.
     
  18. JR59

    JR59 TrainBoard Supporter

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    Joe, it's time for SP, D&RGW and SF now! :)
     
  19. Joe D'Amato

    Joe D'Amato TrainBoard Member

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    Never say never!! :eek:)

    Joe
    MTL


     
  20. zmon

    zmon TrainBoard Member

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    I'm with you Jurg.......Bring on the Grande!!!!

    Tony B...
    Wasatch Z Club:shade:
     

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