My first time with model trains

Thanks Piston8, I have been searching for this sight to post. Glad you found it!

Egon, .137795" = one HO foot. Most of us just use .138" and divide by 12 if we need inches.

Street and road width varies by date and location.
Back in the 30's you could find mountain roads just barely wide enough for a car, so that one would have to back up to a 'wide place' in the road, enough to pass without one of the cars slipping over the edge. These were just dirt or gravel roads. About 8 feet average, the cars were only 6/7 feet wide.

Paved two lane roads were 16 to 20 feet wide and trucks were 7/8 feet wide, so meeting was close.

I have a nephew that can get some actual dimensions from his Surveyor's books, and I'll email you when he responds.

Or: You could place two semi trucks side by side with 3 HO Scale feet between them, and mark 2 feet on the outside of each. That over-all would be reasonable, for the pavement, and look good in HO. Leave another 9 or 10 feet for a shoulder, so he can pull off to change a flat.

 

The semi idea sounds really good, except i don't have any ho automotive vehicles yet. That's why i was asking. But i'm going for modern day size of roads

 

Very good and useful advice Watash,thank you!

 

When running my layout alone, I sometimes revert back to childhood: YEP!

When I was 6 or 7 years old, we had Tootsie Toy cars and trucks, but no "people", so we had to carve our own. (Not always the best but we had HUGE imaginations). We even tried to paint some.

We could make roads in dirt with a stick, and run our cars on them, haul stuff in our trucks, but we couldn't use our trains out in the yard.
We couldn't bring dirt or rocks into the house, so we had to "play-like".
Several of us kids used to sit and day dream about "someday" we wish we could have a place we could have roads, and a train, maybe even a boat for a ferry.
Then we could put "us" (our little person that was 'ME') into a car, drive to work, get ME out and do the kiddie thing (walk-walk-walk) over to a truck, get ME into the truck, back it up to a rock pile, walk over to a crane, load a couple of rocks into our truck, get back in our truck, drive our load over to the train siding, get out, get in another crane, load the rocks into a gondola car, get into the train engine, and go couple onto the gondola, collect a caboose, haul our rocks to "somewhere", and go through it all again, and unload the rocks there.

By that time it was usually time to stop for lunch, and we had spent a very enjoyable time "making believe" it was real. And it was too, because we made all the motor sounds as we went along.
(I had run along beside a big 3 cylinder FWD Dart truck starting off from a stop light, and counted him shifting gears 12 times gaining his road speed before he got out of ear shot!) His truck's cab would hop up and down every time he poured the gas to it! That was impressive!
One big Autocar Diesel pulled his front wheels right up off the pavement at one light, he was so heavily loaded! But he finally got her rolling!

Momma used to laugh listening to us shifting the gears on our trucks, and double clutching them all the way!
Gearing down was a hoot, with all the back-firing blowing out those big exhaust cut-outs!
You guys missed a lot, those are illegal today, but they were sorta like today's "Jake-Brake" only louder and had some 'gun fire' mixed in with squealing of old drum brake shoes as they tried to slow to a stop!

Now that I am retired, I can spend an enjoyable time "playing" like I always wanted to, and I never thought to look to see if my truck had a license plate, or if the engine had 4,993-1/3 rivets, or was anywhere close to the right kind of engine! It simply didn't matter.

Now my cranes work, my engines will run, and I really enjoy "driving" a car along whatever road I may have available.

By then it may be time to come back to the real world, eat supper, and come here and RAZZ all you Detail Hounds, and listen to how much fun you are having in your 'world'. But I'll bet you don't have as much fun as I have enjoying all my memories of when it was all for REAL, cause I was there!

Its a fact that I can actually remember the first time I was riding in a car and my Dad said we are going "a mile a minute" right now! WOW! What a thrill that was!
Why that was faster than I could run!

 

hehe, that post just made me feel really young :zip:

 

Don't it just? Watash's post certainly brings back memories for me. We had to be very imaginative in our days. No such things as, TV's, computors or video games, just good old fashion imagination. Ain't that right Watash??

 

You got that right!
We lived out in the country, and some of the neighbor kids were so poor they couldn't afford to buy toys, so they made their own.
The soil around Wichita is a black fertile loam and packs down nice and firm, so makes excellent roads.
Those kids would get a pan of water and make school buses, trucks, and cars out of mud! They got pretty good at it too. They would use sticks and old shingles to make the sides straight, then use tooth pics to scratch in windows, wheel fenders, and spokes on the wheels.
They made head lights, tail lights, spare wheels, even people!
They would set them out on a board and let them dry in the sun. When dry, they were as hard as a flower pot, with no cracks. They left the bottoms flat and smooth, so they could scoot them along on a road, and just had a great time!
One Christmas, one of them gave me a bus he had made. That hit me really hard, so my Dad let me go and buy various bottles of paint and some brushes, and gave them each some for their presents, all wrapped up.
After that, they painted their cars and people. All were about 1/4" scale more or less about the same size.
They never knew they were poor. We never thought to talk about it.
They had some toys we couldn't buy, because they wern't made then.
I traded them some solid model airplanes, so they built a whole airport, and we played together until I went off to boarding school.
I learned a lot from them, but most people just ignored them as being dumb poor trash.

I could write a book about those four families, and some of the things we got into. We never realized we were all of different races either, we were just friends that played together. The school dividing line was between our house and where they lived, so they went to their school, and I went to mine, and that was just the way it was then.

We shared some of our garden with them, and they shared theirs with us because the War had started, and everything was rationed. Their Dads and uncles went off to War, so times were a bit tight for them.
We had more eggs and chickens than we could eat, had some to sell, but Mom still sent me down there with a wagon full of stuff every other day. They always had something for me to bring home to Mom too. Usually some of the best jelly, fresh butter, and milk that had thick Jersey cream on top, or a dress one had made for Mom. All kinds of things.

You remember "rubber Guns", and sling shots? We made them. Yep, good ones too, and gliders?

I remember it as good times back then.

 

Hmm, that story kind of reminded me of my childhood. Which isn't that many years ago at all. The people living behind us had a drive way with gravel/small stone in the center and all the kids from the neighborhood used to go there. We used to make roads and play with little toy cars. It became very detailed in the end and it's the most fun I have ever had in my childhoot. It beats any video game or movie if you ask me. Just us kids making roads and playing with toy cars. Even I notice that now a days this happens a lot less then only 10 to 15 years ago.

 

I finally had time to work on my landscape again. I worked on the tunnel. Making the edges nicer and putting and extra piece on top.

The pictures you can find in my web album:
http://picasaweb.google.com/egonheidendal/20060907Modeltrain

They are the session 4 pictures; The last 3 ones in the album.

 

Question Egon: Our trains do sometimes derail inside tunnels, so have you planned to lift this mountain off to get the train out? Is it large enough to reach your arm in to get a train? Is it open on the rear side with access to reach inside? Better to plan that now before gluing it down!

It looks like beaded packing foam. Have you tried extruded closed cell insulating foam, (construction foam) used in houses? It is sometimes easier to use, but still makes dust and sticks to everything just as bad. It is the static electricity that does that.

 

The tunnel is big enough to reach into with my hands. The tunnel is also just big enough for the train. That means, if the last wagon of the train goes into the tunnel, the loc is about to go out. I'm not sure if i will glue it down though. I was thining of sticking some toothpicks into the base and into the tunnel and keep it in it's place that way.

The foam is indeed alot like packing foam. I couldn't find the other foam here in the Netherlands. Atleast, not in any of the regular stores. Sometimes I really miss all the stores in the states. Especially when it comes to closing times. Here stores are mostly open from 8am till 6pm.....

 

I worked on the tunnel again tonight. I'm excited that I actually had two nights in a row to work on it. This time I painted the outside. Later this week I will paint the inside. Then it will be put onto the base. I'm really looking forward to that moment. So far I think i'm doing pretty well for a) not having a plan, b) never have done this before.

I also want to thank all of you on here for the support and tips. It took me a long time to find a good website, but you guys all have been a great help! Thanks

Last but not least, the new pictures:
http://picasaweb.google.com/egonheidendal/20060907Modeltrain
Last twelve pictures in the album, session 5.

 

Good idea using toothpicks. You could even use wood dowels that would slide into short sections of PVC pipe. Glue the pipe into the table and the dowels into the mountain. When replacing the mountain, it would be easier to see the end of these two dowels, (so you can align with the matching pipes. Toothpicks might allow the mountain to shift, causing a train to plow into the side of the tunnel. With the inside of the tunnel painted a flat black, visitors wont be able to see inside anyway, but the headlight will be noticeable coming through. Just a suggestion to think about.

 

I was thinking about black, but i'm afraid the change from brown to instant black would be to big, what do you think?. Not sure on what to do, i think i might examen some other pictures of tunnels.

I like your idea about attaching the mountain a lot. I think i'm gonna go to the hardware store this weekend and try it out. The only thing i'm nervous about is that it will wear out, and they will go further into the foam eachtime....

 

Egon,

Unless the sun is shining into a tunnel opening, the inside will look dark and foreboding. So you could use Chocolate Brown, dark gray, even black, so long as it is a flat paint with no gloss to reflect light.

For photos, a black hole will stand out better than the surrounding scenery, and without it, rock bore tunnels almost disappear in a photo, see?

When you go to the store, get a dowel and plastic electrical conduit (thin wall), of sizes so that the dowel rod will slip inside the pipe easily, even loosely is OK.

If you will have several mountains, or large buildings, removable, then go ahead and get a regular 24 or 36 inch long wood or plastic dowel or tube to make the peg out of. And find another tube that is larger inside by 1/16 to 1/8" so it is not a tight fit. (You can use two tubes, and save weight). Chamfer or round off one end of each peg.

You will only need a hole 1-1/2 to 2 inch deep up into the mountain, with only about 1/2 to 1" sticking out after gluing the pegs in place.
You may want to look in the electrical and plumbing fittings to find one that is big enough for the peg to slip into. The fitting could have a rather large flange on one end. It can be plastic or metal, doesn't matter. If you use a pipe or tube, remove any burrs from the hole both ends.

For window displays, and museum displays, we have even bought small file handles for pegs, and flanged couplings or pipe flanges for the base pieces.

You want the mountain to lift out easily without binding, and be easy to slip around a bit so it can "find" one hole in the base to fall in to, then simply swing the mountain one way or the other until the other peg falls into its base hole position.
You should have plenty of room for the mountain to move around at least 1/16" in all directions without the train hitting the tunnel wall.

Continue to paint your scenery color on under beyond the mountain's edge all around, and you will want to mount a bit of foliage along the base of the mountain to hide where the mountain meets the table anyway.

How do you get the pegs to be located correctly so the mountain fits where you want it to be? That depends up on where you locate the pegs, and can you reach that same location from under the table, or have to work from the top?

Museums prefer we drill holes up into the mountain from below, to prevent damaging scenery already done by another contractor or artist.
However, if it would be more convenient for "you" to drill down through the mountain into the table, you can do just as good a job that way too. You will then have to carve two plugs to close the holes on top of your mountain, where we wouldn't, is the only difference, see? It no big deal.
The main thing is to drill as perpendicular as possible on both holes.

Use this procedure:
(1.) Locate the mountain or building exactly where it will be for a permanent location and position.

(2.) Make a small mark on the table and edge of the mountain as alignment marks in two places as far apart as is practical, like opposite ends of the mountain. (Now the mountain can be removed, and replaced in the same position by re-aligning the marks)
(3.) Take measurements to calculate how deep to drill: (example)

(A) Thickness of table at the point or points where you will drill through the table to the surface where the mountain will sit.
(Plywood=1/2", foam=2", total=2-1/2" etc.)

(B) Into mountain=2".

(C) total drill depth=4-1/2".

(4.) You will need an augur bit (best) or spade bit (will work), that is the same diameter as the PEG. (You may have to find a bit and dowel to match for diameter).
Wrap masking tape several layers thick around a wood augur bit (drill), so it is 4-1/2" from the tip of the bit to the edge of the tape, so you can tell when you have drilled deep enough. (This type bit has a point with large flat bottom cutting wings, so measure from the bottom of the wing, not the point.) Lay this bit aside for now.

(5.) Now you will need another augur bit the same diameter as the outside diameter of the base pipe. (You may find a round hole saw that will make the correct diameter hole needed here)
Again, wrap masking tape around this larger augur bit as far from its tip as the plywood of the table top is thick. This will help you determine when the bit is about to 'grab' as it goes through, see?

(6.) Now remove the mountain for the next step.

(7.) Use the LARGER bit to drill through the wooden table top (only), at the two locations you want the pegs to be. (If you have glued foam on top, you will want to drill through it also.)
It is best to drill by hand here, because an electric drill can get away from you!

If you do not have a 'brace and bit', a hand crank drill will work as well.

If you are forced to use a power drill, be very careful when starting through the plywood! Run the drill motor as slowly as you can, turning it off and on very quickly, because it will shower you with chips, so of course wear a full face shield, and be prepared for the drill to jerk up out of your grasp just as the drill bit gets through the top surface of the wood!

When you look at a drill bit, you see 'flutes' spiraling down the side to the point. On an augur bit, those 'flutes' are almost like threads on a screw, so they will tend to pull the bit, drill motor, and you right up into your mountain if allowed to run long enough!

So be prepared to turn the drill motor off as it starts through the wood of the table!

For these two particular holes, you may drill down through the table, or up from below, which ever is easiest for you. The following instructions apply either way.

(It is only the peg holes that will have to be drilled from below.)

Now hold it tightly and using short bursts of power, slowly drill through, then work the bit into and out of the wood to clean out the chips and burrs that are trying to make the augur climb into the wood. (You may even have to reverse the drill to get it out.
You may have to use a pocket knife in the hole, to shave off burrs, or sand off the burrs with a Dremel tool, if you have already glued foam on top of the wood)
Try to NOT enlarge the hole in the wood too much (if you do NOT have foam on top).

(8.) Now place the plastic base piece into the hole in the table. The pipe may be a slip fit, or if it has a flange, make sure it sits flat on the flange. (More about the flange later).
Repeat this procedure for the other base hole in the table.

(9.) Glue both base pieces in the holes for now, leaving their top flush with the table top, if they are tubes, or pipe.
(If they have a flange, glue the flange to the table top. When the glue dries, place the mountain on top of the flanges in alignment with the marks, and press down while rocking the mountain just enough to get an impression of the flange's diameter. Remove the mountain and carve out enough relief to clear the two flanges so the mountain can sit flat on the table top.)

(10.) Remove the large drill bit, and replace it with the peg sized bit.
Wrap enough masking tape around this bit (1/2" back from the tip) to make it fit fairly snug into the base pipe, but still loose enough to rotate freely. (This is to help keep the drill 'centered' in the base pipe). You can use other means for this also.

(11.) Now replace the mountain and align it with the locating marks as before.
(12.) Have someone hold the mountain in place while you drill the holes.


(13.) Place the drill through the base piece and drill up into the mountain about a 1/2" or so to get a 'starter hole', which will be pretty well centered with the base piece.
Do the same on the other base piece. Now, remove the tape from the drill tip, and drill up into the mountain to the correct depth, and stop turning the drill as you slowly pull it back out of the hole.

(14.) Clean up the mess of foam and wood chips.

(15.) Glue the pegs in place in the mountain with the chamfered end sticking out.

You can now remove and replace a mountain or building easily without harming other scenery or blocking a train. This also allows you to work on scenery at your work bench, rather than having to lean over the layout. Well, I'm a bit lazy! Be kind, I'm old!

You can come up with your own short cuts, but this is a semi-precision method to insure accuracy without a lot of machinery. In Tool and Die making, this can be done with great accuracy, so you have lessons from several trades here, see?

Once you know how, its simple to do.

 

That was one long explanation for that Watash, thank you! I'll read it a few more times to make sure i get it completely. Also, i won't be doing this till later probably. My base is just foam right now, no wood yet.

I painted the inside black today but i think i made a mistake since i went for the gloss one. I can always paint it over, woops. I already painted it before I read your tip.

Pictures are up again, last 5 ones in the album:
http://picasaweb.google.com/egonheidendal/20060907Modeltrain

I'm going to take some pictures with the train going through the tunnel tomorrow when the paint is dry.

Thanks again for the long detailed explanation, I will be using that in the future!

 

Egon, if there is not a plywood table, it is much easier.

Do all the steps for location, (marks), then have someone hold the mountain in position, and just drill the peg holes into the foam to full depth, both holes. Then it is easy to just drill the table foam out to the right diameter for the base pieces.

You can use ordinary drill bits for foam.

The idea for the plastic base pieces is to prevent wearing the foam away when removing the mountain. Same for the pegs, see?

Email me if you need a drawing.

 

I'll probaby send you an email soon for a drawing yeah.

I got new pictures online, i put the tunnel on the base and took some of the train going through the tunnel:
http://picasaweb.google.com/egonheidendal/20060907Modeltrain
The last 5 pictures in the album are new (session 7)

 

I put some grass on the tunnel yesterday but I ran out of grass. I'll have to get some more friday. However, I found it hard to get the grass on there, I don't know. How do you guys do it? Any tips are welcome.

The way i did it was put some glue on the foam, and then put a bunch of grass on it and at first i spread it out with a brush, but that wasn't working so I used my hands.

I'll edit this post with some pictures later today.