Research Your right, I didn't see those, wish I had cause I'd like a few..good modivation to do them again ) We did the decal thing with the first set up of FT's and got a lot of flack over it. There might be a different dynamic between Special Run folks and general MTL Customers. Seems when we leave parts for assembly in general production, that's when we get negative feed back. I don't know if it's collectors or runners or both, but I don't know if I can sell the idea...we'll see. But, I do think they might work in the Runner's Packs. Price is a huge factor...huge. I see the work sheets and when it comes to masking and painting, the price can grow real fast. Quantity isn't an issue, doesn't raise or lower the price with regards to production quantities...it's in the hand work and the degree of difficulty in production. I have been harping on Ben about the TOFC's and they are looking at them again. Thanks to all the suggestions, links and emails I've gotten over the past two weeks, I think I have a good presentation ready. Stay Tuned. Cheers Joe
Joe, Thank You for your response and for taking the time to read my request (s) ! Sincerely, Jeff Sauer
I think it's great that you're looking for feedback from rabid consumers! Keep up the good work. P.S. Did I mention Erie cabooses?
Answering Another Q on the 2 Looong Post ! John, Thanks. I know. The quality just continues to get beter and better for we "N" Scalers. With my posts, we have to stir into the mix that I am a die hard pre BN fan, especially NP & GN ! Gosh throw the NP paint on a milk carton; "SOLD" would be my cry ! (Even with an empty wallet!) I was up late the other night, my defenses were down, I just decided to "go for it" ! I KNOW that there are other "N" Scalers out there with their favorite road, who have waited for years for "their" release (s), or have looked on in dispair, as NSC "collecter" packs or cars are today far out of reasonable price reach, and I have wanted to give a voice and a face and an example or two, to just a few specifics, to this ... um ... frustration. I tried to be as non-negative as possible (Wow two negatives back to back, in a sentence!)(It's like reading my King James!) So I wentest forthest andeth and doth wroteth and doth posteth though thy posteth and was willingnesslyeth to shareth all aroundeth, even to thou thee MTLeth. John, you are right about the increased quality and fidelity of the New Generations of "N" Scale product. That ATLAS Hart Ballest Car is out of this world, and I snatched my NP set up ASAP, and now it's gone-gone-gone. But their other newer cars are just as great, even the new Trainman cars ! But MTL HAS ALSO been keeping strides with the increased quality. I still can't conceive that they have 100+ body styles created and in house. And they just keep getting beter and better ! And you know, that just these 2 companies alone get deluged with requests ! I am still very - very impressed with the MTL PAN-AM 50' Boxcar that they just did ! They could've hung a $50 price tag on it and it still would be selling just as fast and still will sell out completely very soon. I have no arguement with MSRP at all. But as an example, I have to say no to PAN-AM because that $35 to $50 dollars for it, I have to stash away just in case on the of the "rare" GN cars comes up for auction ! I would love that Pan Am car, but I have no moolah ! Bread on the table means more than bread spent on my trains. This is just one example of the dynamics at play here. I'm holding back on new product because when someone fains and puts up an old NSC car out for auction, my money stays put for it, IF it may come. Kermit the Frog; "For the lovers, the dreamers and me" For an example of most recent quality, how about those Athearn Tank Cars ! Wow ! Yes Intermountain and Red Caboose and even Deluxe are continueing to press forward along with the Manufacturers also mentioned. "Good Enough" for me, whoever you are is an incredibly "subjective" statement and frame of mind. You could contact any of these Mfgrs and they would tell you that the flashy, and the not so "dead on's" are the cars that outsell the real prototypical cars, and by a large margin too ! Bill McKean once told me about when he was coming out with his 100 ton coal cars in "HO" (molds now owned by Con-Cor) that he and friends wrangled in their office if they should do the car in Rio Grande, for fear of the prototype police. You see the problem was that Rio Grande at the time, had zero 3 bays and ran everything with 4 bays. Well they finally decided to release the 3 bay 100 ton Coal car in Rio Grande and braced for the worst... The worst indeed. While he owned the the molds, the Rio Grand car was their # 1 seller, it went through several re-runs and also went through a "Special Run" by a Rio fanatic ! We all strive for the best that we can do, so do the Manufacturers, but at some point creativity and reality and sales and just plain fun enters into the picture. Who would've imagined that MTL's State cars would be the success that they are ? I have waited for 30 years for ANY "N" Scale Company to do the correct Large NP paint on a simple 40' boxcar. I'm tired of paying $65.00 for any simple 40' GN Double Door boxcar in correct paint. Let's see if anybody listened. Sincerely, Jeff Sauer
Joe, does MT take sugjestions for the Navy series? If so I have a good one, LHD 6, the Bonhomme Richard. This is the third USN to wear the name and even though it is pretty new (1998) it has done some amazing things already. Just in my two times on the ship it serrved as a Harrier carrier for OIF then brought me home. The second time I was on it with the 15th MEU we responded to the tusnamie (spelling) in the Indian Ocean and did exercises in Kuwait and went into Iraq. Also how about a Marine car (the Navy can't protect themselfs you know). http://www.lhd6.navy.mil/index.htm Kevin
Navy Right now we are doing WW2 stuff, but I plan on modern ships as well...I'll put her down on the list. I spent some time with the Gator Navy when I was in the service. Joe
Thanks for the response, Joe! You're right - price is huge, especially when you're talking cars that sell in multiples, such as the 89 footers. Speaking only for myself, I'm in for one or even two sixpacks of 89 footers without lettering. But the key will be to put the cars in our hands for under $20 a piece. Given that at that price it's only yellow paint, do you think that is in the same zip code as possible? When it comes to runners, we (within reason) don't care about packaging, because we'll either store them in our own carry-alls or staging track, so there's another potential cost saving. But... low profile wheels, please!
Without getting into gory detail I'd like to say that in my ten plus years of covering MTL products in the Unofficial Micro-Trains Release Report I can't remember the last time I saw a public dialogue as well thought out and courteous as this one; even when the opinions are more constructive criticism than praise. (Great, now you've jinxed it.) I hope we can all continue to have this kind of discourse about this and other "hot topics"-- so far, so good. It has been my observation that MTL folks are slowly becoming more open about releases, future plans and collecting input. Certainly Joe's commentary on the Z Scale portion of this site has been much more open than I've ever seen coming from Talent. (And it keeps this columnist on his toes!) One word about the Pan Am boxcar, just to be clear: "Blowout." They are already sold out, have been since day one. (I've heard "hour one.") With the April UMTRR now posted to the website to complete the month's cycle, and some business travel pending, I will be scarce for a while-- I return just in time to start the May bytes. I'm hoping to see many more posts on this thread when I get back!
I have been reading back through some of the old posts in this thread and a thought occurred to me in regard to some of the "old" stock clogging up space at MTL, why not offer some "package deals" of 6 or so old stock wagons in a pack at a slightly reduced price. They don't have to be the same RR but the same or similar era's would be handy, i have been looking at various places, including the "E" auction site and to buy one wagon at a time is too much mucking around for me, i would much prefer to buy "packs" of wagons at a time. Any possibilities Joe?
Runs... Morning, We did some of this last year with bulk sales to dealers to clear inventory and I believe it went over really well. The hope was that the dealers passed on the savings to the customers, but I was only on the outside orbit of the project. We talked about some schemes for direct sales and the like, but again, that's all up in Marketing. I know they are working on how and what we sell, so you never know. It seems reasonable to drop the prices a bit to clear the shelves...good point. Cheers Joe MTL
Transparancy Thanks for the comments and your williness to wade into the middle of some unwarrented mud slinging elsewhere. Truly heroic! I expected nothing less than I got from this and the other web sites I haunt when asking for suggestions. Good folks who seem to grasp the big picture in all this. Bottom line, we are a business and it doesn't do us any good to try and pull fast ones or missrepresent ourselves as something we are not. I love working here and have been blessed with working for some really talented folks. I also think the credit goes to Management (Eric) for looking into the future and allowing me the opportunity to share what we are doing at MTL with the larger community. Z is a bit more open than N right now, but things are changing. We have some killer new body styles on the way in N Scale, some requested in this very thread and I wish I could see the faces of everyone when they are announced. What that tells me is that we are getting closer to each other, the customer and MTL, at understanding the market, the limitations and expectations...and that is great for everyone. I also want to thank those of you who contact me directly with your suggestions, I take all of that and apply it as I can. Jeff Sauer's well thought out and researched posts were inspirational. I took the posts, went through the library and lists of our past releases and formulated suggestions for future releases. Many other posts I've gotten have been treated the same way. I just want everyone to know that MTL isn't some sort of corporate black hole where stuff goes in and nothing comes out. Keep the suggestions coming! Cheers Joe
Guys - MTL & Joe ARE Listening !!! Joe, Thank You for your kind words and your follow-up ! Finally , I am speechless... (And a cheer goes up from the crowd; "yea" mg: ---------------------------------------------- Guys, Post Your Requests ! MTL is Listening for and to you1 At the very - very least they can say "no" or "maybe later." MTL is listening... Post a Request ! - While this Forum's MTL Post is still UP ! Again Joe, Thank You - If even for simply listening ! - Jeff Sauer
I'm real late to this thread as I was away traveling. But even though it might be too late let me just add two short comments. 1. Put me down with Thirdrail and the others asking for a ventilated boxcar. 2. I've been looking for an outside braced, center cupola caboose, but I'm not sure anyone has made one in N. Like the following examples. I'm not sure how many other roads had them, but I'm not picky about the road, I'd be happy to get one in undec. Thanks for asking for input. Best regards Ed
O.K. i'm a newbie BUT, the tank train w/ the large lettering is a beautiful idea, and also the carbon cars. i vote for runners pks on both... yeehaw from texas.
I would like to offer two sugestions for future freight car models. First is a 40' plug door ice reefer. The prototype is the FGE model. A photo can be seen at http://geocities.com/oldlahistory/fhix41035.jpg. Also there are lots of pictures in the Morning Sun guide to Ice Reefers book. The reporting marks include FGEX/FHIX/WFEX/WHIX/WFBX/LLNX/MNX, with the MNX reefers including lots of meat packers paint schemes. The only other 40' plug door reefer is the Red Caboose Santa Fe prototype. The second model is a 50' boxcar that could potentially be used for tons of railroads. Nobody has done the General American/Evans 1950's lease boxcars. There is an article about these in the new Railway Prototype Cyclopedia just coming out. Basically these have 16 panel riveted sides with an 8' door. Lots of railroads had this car or similar cars. You could also do what you did with your PS1 boxcar line and have single door [plug or sliding] or double door [plug, sliding, or a combination of plug and sliding doors]. These cars could be found on just about any road and in numerous paint schemes, many of these paint schemes you already have and have used on your PS1 boxcars. There is also the option of the 1955 leaser car that has the horizontal rivet strip along each side of the cars. Thanks for listening and for asking for input on future models. Albert Spor
I won't comment on the future, that's Joe's job-- But MTL is known for having done something called "Bonus Packs" which are what you describe. These were usually five shrinkwrapped cars (wagons) to a pack with a single yellow sticker. These had five digit stock numbers not similar to anything else in the catalog, such as "19998" and "19999". I don't think the sticker price was less than the sum total of the individual car prices but I believe that they were offered to dealers at greater than the usual discount from that sticker price. This is going back at least ten years I would think, maybe a little less. Since I've been doing the UMTRR I don't recall there being word of a "Bonus Pack" coming across my desk. More recently, I am pretty sure that there are the occassional "dealer incentives" offered but since that's between MTL and its Authorized Dealer Networks I don't think it's fair to comment on them. Oh, by the way, guess what happened with a few of these Bonus Packs-- they went into Really Dedicated Collectors' Collections. Same cars as were available individually, no difference at all; but a new stock number, so something else to collect!
Joe, I did not take the time to read all 18 pages of this thread. My wishes are on shorty Harriman coaches for small late steam era layouts. Also would like to see a VGN caboose to run with the Heratige VGN berk. Oh, yea, more coffee cars. An entire series of them. What a colorful, collectible consist that could be.
Joe - I'm also very late to the party on this thread, but here are my suggestions: -Twin 45 and Triple 28 versions of the TTX 89' flat -60' OTTX/QTTX flats -More 48' trailers 80's & 90's schemes -and I'd be ALL over tank train tankers! This thread confirms my belief that Microtrains is a great company. Great products, and made in the USA - a fantastic combination.
John, I think it was MDC / Roundhouse that did the coffee cars, on their 36 foot reefer or box car, or both. Interesting that there was never the vitriol piled on MDC for "Fantasy Cars" when they were released, vs Pepsi, Smokey, States, Navy from MTL...
